So Bad So Sad
Master
Are you trying to say that every single idoc is turned into an event? If so, this is highly Untrue.
IDOC changes are awesome
- Thread starter Kird
- Start date
silent
Adept
The simple fact is that IDOCS are going to be controlled by the bigger group with or without these changes. I don't see anything negative about the changes other than some people would prefer not to work for the free loot.
The plus side to the changes - People can't just use scripts or scavenge the items, since the mobs have to be killed to loot them. It adds an element of surprise, you can't just go scope out which item you want to nab.. you get whatever item you get from the mob you managed to get.
Lets face it, the IDOC NPC makes it easy to find them, how does this really impact the server? The one complaint I consistently read is that people who worked hard to find or time the IDOC are pissed off that someone paid 5k to find it in seconds.
In reality the thing nobody stops to complain or think about is, how it ACTUALLY negatively impacts the server / economy.
What do I mean right?
Well, if an IDOC goes without being found, all those items decay, improving the economy AND the rarity of the items already in circulation.
When the NPC was put into play I remember it being said - it was to prevent big guilds from overtaking the majority of IDOCS and it was to be tested. Not much feedback came from it, the cost of the NPC was increased. It was never officially addressed from what I saw personally, perhaps i'm wrong.
Lets face it, I don't like to mention names but (EQMS) big guilds were the reason this was put in place. We now know the NPC was ineffective. I say REMOVE THE NPC - and leave in place the new changes. Boost the economy, AND add a new, harder to find activity.
Why? Because isnt that was this era of UO was about? Find it, figure it out and have fun doing it...
I did not vote on this pole because there was no relevant choice for my opinion!
/end
The plus side to the changes - People can't just use scripts or scavenge the items, since the mobs have to be killed to loot them. It adds an element of surprise, you can't just go scope out which item you want to nab.. you get whatever item you get from the mob you managed to get.
Lets face it, the IDOC NPC makes it easy to find them, how does this really impact the server? The one complaint I consistently read is that people who worked hard to find or time the IDOC are pissed off that someone paid 5k to find it in seconds.
In reality the thing nobody stops to complain or think about is, how it ACTUALLY negatively impacts the server / economy.
What do I mean right?
Well, if an IDOC goes without being found, all those items decay, improving the economy AND the rarity of the items already in circulation.
When the NPC was put into play I remember it being said - it was to prevent big guilds from overtaking the majority of IDOCS and it was to be tested. Not much feedback came from it, the cost of the NPC was increased. It was never officially addressed from what I saw personally, perhaps i'm wrong.
Lets face it, I don't like to mention names but (EQMS) big guilds were the reason this was put in place. We now know the NPC was ineffective. I say REMOVE THE NPC - and leave in place the new changes. Boost the economy, AND add a new, harder to find activity.
Why? Because isnt that was this era of UO was about? Find it, figure it out and have fun doing it...
I did not vote on this pole because there was no relevant choice for my opinion!
/end
Daddys Money
Grandmaster
Go a step further... remove the npc and make a gate from WBB to the IDOC 30 min before falling. Get everyone in on it. Do this with every IDOC, and now you won't have people saying the spent all that time hunting for IDOC's, because that way of doing IDOCs becomes obsolete.
Cash is King
Grandmaster
Obviously you haven't done idoc's a day in your uo life to have made this statement. idocs require a hell of a lot of work and time commitment and also that you play very frequently to be timing them.
These and other changes are making it so that doing idocs (a facet of uo gameplay that's always been a part of the game) becomes obsolete. That's my concern.
For years idoc's were the reason I played this game and dozens of other people are/were the same way. They're fun and exciting. If idoc's are the primary activity that a segment of the player-base does in this game, that requires them to play often. If you eliminate the one thing they do in this game you will lose active players.
If I was farming with a tamer 20 hours a week instead of scouting/timing idocs, I'd likely make the same amount of money on average. idoc's are just a different way to make money in this game. They're fun and stimulate guild-building and pvp.
As someone previously said, these changes are forcing pvm and other aspects of uo to be a part of idocs and this isn't good or necessary. For house drop events I 100% support this but not regular idocs.
If the monsters are going to stay (which I strongly oppose) then please eliminate the npc as a trade-off. That's a great suggestion.
Keep in mind the staff is being very clear that this is a work in progress. They will see these comments and continue to evolve whatever it is they're doing to idocs.
egor
Grandmaster
What NPC ))), Does not make sense! Will be the same! I found everything Idoc in the server for 6 hourse! Just find the house and note the rune with the date! Then just look in the calendar. How to two fingers to Pee! ))
To begin with, I will describe everything briefly, so that it was clear that Idoc exists for the joy of a small number of the elect! And that is 20-30 people! Who spend the whole day at the bank and then go for half an hour to steal someone else's! They come in blue players, and when competitors appear they enter the PK and kill everyone, then they calmly loot everything! Primitive tactics of power. Strengthening monsters only worsened the situation, if you yourself, and while you kill the dragon you kill the PK! That is, not the mind and skill wins, but the crowd of people! Strengthening monsters helped only the same 20-30 people, because there are a lot of them! And for singles this only worsened the situation! 20-30 people - clap their hands, before they Loot 70% of things, now 99%!
1. Remove all loot Idoc or leave randomly 15-20%
(I think that the land on which you will put the house - it will be enough! It's a very good profit - put the house for 300k - sold for 2-3 million, and if you take 24x24 - so there's generally 10-15 million! Just draw parallels with the Champions - People there are more tormented and receive as much as for the house.)
It will offend only 20-30 people.Because the rest of the players, do not go to the Idoc! I think this is a worthy price, for the economic recovery!
halygon
Grandmaster
This is partially true. You can do a full zone run in a couple of hours, mark the big targets and sit characters on them for timers pretty easy with low effort (other than locking down some accounts and the occasional pk). Now if you assume that no one runs a house sign script (no one ever does that right?), then yeah, its a time and labor intensive task to find and time a decaying house. For those that are not timing and using timers that other's gave them, then its a easy pay day - free loot.
I hear ya, I have a good couple of years spent doing nothing but idocs myself and thats how I got started here on UOF too (hence my coordinate rune books at my library since 2013).
I was partially resistant to opening idocs up to those that do not time too. It feels like a betrayal of a secret area of UO that I lived with with just a handful of others for so long. But look at it another way. The NPC is debatable for sure (good and bad), but beyond that, these idoc changes are generating new and fresh interest to IDOCS. Trust me, we want to have more people interested in IDOCs because that makes them that much greater a reward -- and fun!
Many of you probably do not remember IDOCs on UOF in 2013, but each somewhat decent size house was an event in itself. 50+ blues hanging around while reds tried to disperse them. Every IDOC was pretty much announced so more and more blues would show up - completely against what I had known to do with IDOCs for years. As UOF got more mature, IDOCs became more secretive like I had known on prior shards. Fairly recently it had gotten to a point that only a handful of people even cared to do them. The NPC helped liven them up, but these recent changes have shown vastly successful - not at every IDOC, but at many more than before.
This is of course as @Shane said, a test to get to the right place, but we have so many options going this route to make IDOCs even more fun for everyone.
Cash is King
Grandmaster
@halygon
Fair points and it's good to see this evolve and have staff listen to the players. If adding mobs has truly attracted more people to idocs and you're seeing those results, that's a good thing.
My updated suggestions:
1) Remove the npc since it gives idocs away OR increase the price significantly (50k+) so it's not used as often and is not always worth the gamble. (I highly suggest it gets removed because rich people/guilds will easily spend 50k+ or take turns at who pays and then gate the whole guild in.)
2) Keep the monsters. That accomplishes both the intent of livening up idocs as you mentioned while maintaining the idoc gameplay aspect of the game. While I'd rather not have them and voiced my concerns, it sounds like a lot of players and staff want them. There's two sides to every coin.
3) Make the idoc monster spawn be MOTM mobs. That will entice people to idoc more since they will have a concentrated MOTM spawn for chance at MOTM loot, plus the idoc loot. Most MOTM don't have many spawn points and are farmed constantly. This gives people another way and will get many more people/guilds idoc'ing again.
Fair points and it's good to see this evolve and have staff listen to the players. If adding mobs has truly attracted more people to idocs and you're seeing those results, that's a good thing.
My updated suggestions:
1) Remove the npc since it gives idocs away OR increase the price significantly (50k+) so it's not used as often and is not always worth the gamble. (I highly suggest it gets removed because rich people/guilds will easily spend 50k+ or take turns at who pays and then gate the whole guild in.)
2) Keep the monsters. That accomplishes both the intent of livening up idocs as you mentioned while maintaining the idoc gameplay aspect of the game. While I'd rather not have them and voiced my concerns, it sounds like a lot of players and staff want them. There's two sides to every coin.
3) Make the idoc monster spawn be MOTM mobs. That will entice people to idoc more since they will have a concentrated MOTM spawn for chance at MOTM loot, plus the idoc loot. Most MOTM don't have many spawn points and are farmed constantly. This gives people another way and will get many more people/guilds idoc'ing again.
egor
Grandmaster
You are all talking about NPC, monsters and so on. Can we talk about the results? What changed? For the better or for worse? I'll say so, nothing has changed, the same people take 90% loot Idoc. 5-6 Idoc a day! You imagine what is 5-6 Idoc a day= the same people! Their greed has no limits!
drasked
Grandmaster
This would stop me from doing the occasional IDOC.
egor
Grandmaster
On Idoc and so no one goes, but you offer it! ))))
I suggest opening a gate in a bank in Britain so that everyone can participate, and there will be more people VS 2-3 guilds (30 people which consistently loot 90% Idoc) = this will complicate their life. And will be real fun for all!
Cash is King
Grandmaster
Using that same logic why don't we charge 5k for the coordinates of the harrower or all RDA's, etc. etc.? It's a slippery slope.
The 5k cost is a waste of time to type 'withdraw 5000' it's such a small amount.
UO wasn't meant for people to be spoon fed but the npc giving idoc coordinates does exactly that.
Put in work - get rewarded. That's the premise of uo since inception. This is why I think the npc should go.
The 5k cost is a waste of time to type 'withdraw 5000' it's such a small amount.
UO wasn't meant for people to be spoon fed but the npc giving idoc coordinates does exactly that.
Put in work - get rewarded. That's the premise of uo since inception. This is why I think the npc should go.
Xiulan
Master
Opinions are pretty divided, actually: https://www.uoforum.com/threads/idoc-changes-are-awful.97026/
I for one stopped doing idocs altogether because of the new mobs.
Daddys Money
Grandmaster
Change mobs to Serpentine Dragons, now tamers cant command pets to directly attack them. Not only that, but serps do 3x damage to pets, and will flag you grey if you attack(all guard) them. Serpentine dragons and magnatite elementals only 
, and make some of those paragons.
, and make some of those paragons.how its called "work" to run a afk script ??
Also UO wasn't meant for people to have 60+ accounts to hold plots fucking peace of shit.
Bobby123
Grandmaster
Change mobs to Serpentine Dragons, now tamers cant command pets to directly attack them. Not only that, but serps do 3x damage to pets, and will flag you grey if you attack(all guard) them. Serpentine dragons and magnatite elementals only
this is a very good suggestion
well done !
@eppy
AreYouKidden
Grandmaster
except the options are kind of limited.. I didnt' like just the Ettins, nor do I like the new mobs - there really needs to be an option for meeting somewhere in the middle.
egor
Grandmaster
I do not know where you got this from! But sometimes I go to Idoc, I do a lot of work, and I do not get anything! Because, there are 30 people! Which do not give to receive, take, even 1 thing! Idoc for most - a waste of time, from 30 greedy people!
I for that to remove all things!
egor
Grandmaster
Change mobs to Serpentine Dragons, now tamers cant command pets to directly attack them. Not only that, but serps do 3x damage to pets, and will flag you grey if you attack(all guard) them. Serpentine dragons and magnatite elementals only
you Crazy, and Idoc Forever closed for solo players?
halygon
Grandmaster
We have tossed this one around already among staff - would like to hear more people chime in on the thought.
halygon
Grandmaster
Loot in IDOCs are hit or miss for sure. Its a numbers game -- go to enough, you will eventually get something worthwhile. As long as IDOCs are around, those that enjoy doing them, will always do them.
As Shane mentioned, him and staff literally watch most of the IDOCs - partially because they are entertaining, but also because they help us assess how that area of UOF has changed or progressed. Since the changes, we have seen a couple of changes occur. New participants have begun showing up, many more thieves now appear (looting corpses), and the struggle for loot goes on quite a bit longer and is not as one-sided as it was before. The mob element causes PKs issues and makes it a mixed bag. In addition, we are seeing more loot lost due to corpse decay. All in all, a pretty good increase on a super old area of UO.