Cack
Grandmaster
At any rate...theyre not gonna remove pet skill loss. We all know this.
remove pet perma skill loss
- Thread starter Kairus
- Start date
halygon
Grandmaster
I don't understand. Do you think every single pet should be 5-6x GM all the time?
There are several things already in the favor a Tamer:
- Accelerated Skill Gain on Pets - Pets gain skills faster on UOF than they normally should. This is in place to help balance the occasional death your pets may incur.
- Skill Scrolls On Pets - Pets can easily be trained back up per death via skill scrolls. Yes these do cost $$
K A Z
Grandmaster
is it tamer pvp when u nerds run around spamming all guard me and pressing down an attack closest murderer hotkey ?
lollo
Grandmaster
Doesn't work any more [emoji29]
Bobby123
Grandmaster
K A Z
Grandmaster
does when ure the aggressor for sure
if u think thats wat it is ................
chill buddy !
peace out !
that is what you guys are doing. its a shame that teleporting dragons are still not fixed - but it seems as if shane is the tamer populations *****.
Lexington
Grandmaster
#1... yes I do!
If I spend the time to train up my pet it should remain at 7xGM. How can you not give perma statloss to the class it was originally designed for but justify because of some bullshit PVP situation that there should be a gap between skills. Taming and PVP shouldn't even be in the same sentence.
IMO… there is no way a server should promote any version of offensive Tamer PVP. Defensive for a PVM toon yes but not offensive for PVP.
#2… Yes but 100k + because some asshole griefs your level 7 meta, come on!?
If you want to give out pet statloss because of PVP why not restrict it to the class that uses it for PVP… FACTIONS and or REDS??
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Tard the Paladin
Grandmaster
Well I'd rather see pets have stat loss removed than putting perma stat on reds but its still a bad idea.
Tamers already have the most powerful arsenal in game. Naturally there should be a penalty if a pet dies. Tamers carry a bag of regs. A dexer is going to have to carry decent armor and an expensive weapon. If tamers are allowed no stat loss on pets then dexer's should be able to keep their gear if they die.
A level 7 meta for a tamer should be like a full set of slayer armor and a runic super slayer weapon for a dexer. It should suck to die with either. If tamers are allowed no penalty for dying then at least make it fair for dexer's as well. To truly make it fair, durability loss should be removed for armor and weapons as well.
I think it would be super trammy but I support removing pet skill loss if dexer's can keep their gear and suffer no durability loss. The scales still tip in favor of tamers but at least dexer's would finally have something thrown their way. PK'ing would still be fun without getting a dexer's gear or stat'ing pets so I don't mind from that perspective either.
Tamers already have the most powerful arsenal in game. Naturally there should be a penalty if a pet dies. Tamers carry a bag of regs. A dexer is going to have to carry decent armor and an expensive weapon. If tamers are allowed no stat loss on pets then dexer's should be able to keep their gear if they die.
A level 7 meta for a tamer should be like a full set of slayer armor and a runic super slayer weapon for a dexer. It should suck to die with either. If tamers are allowed no penalty for dying then at least make it fair for dexer's as well. To truly make it fair, durability loss should be removed for armor and weapons as well.
I think it would be super trammy but I support removing pet skill loss if dexer's can keep their gear and suffer no durability loss. The scales still tip in favor of tamers but at least dexer's would finally have something thrown their way. PK'ing would still be fun without getting a dexer's gear or stat'ing pets so I don't mind from that perspective either.
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Tard the Paladin
Grandmaster
You offer no ideas, only BS. And trust me, I've killed enough tamers to know what they carry.
halygon
Grandmaster
PvP is an integral part of any fel ruleset shard and not putting in balancing for those situations makes no sense. Taming & PvP has been around since OSI started, so taking that into account for rulesets is not
UOF doesn't have and won't have a split shard like when trammel was around on OSI - this means that we need to keep things fair for everyone or else the scales of balance will tip too far in one direction.
While you do nothing but PVM and work hard to build up your pets, others my do nothing but PvP - both of your gameplay styles are valid, but must be accounted for.
Outside all of this, it is like @Tard the Paladin said, this is at its core a penalty for letting (or having) a pet die, similar to what is loss when your character dies - except that pets do not carry equipment, so they lose something different.
Cack
Grandmaster
Well id say a good 75%+ of the time their pets are otherwise engaged....so you're actually fighting a no more than 5x character, minus lore and tamer...4x if they have vet. Youve claomed to have killed alot of tamers yet say they have the most powerful arsenal....yet they die alot....it's because while the pets are strong the character is weak.
Why do you think they only carry regs, such like a thief carries nothing, they expect to be pked and on tjis shard...it's not an unreasonable one.
But, your ideas of inching towatds trammel...Come on man
Lexington
Grandmaster
Hey @halygon
I do respect the work you do here but pet statloss is wrong, was wrong when it was implemented and will be wrong until the end of time. You're simply punishing the wrong play style. People keep talking about items lost when they are justifying pet statloss. This has nothing to do with items and or value of items lost when you die. Time is the only thing that has any real value to an aging UO population and this is an unreasonable TIME punishment. If you can't see that I fear we must duel to the death to resolve this!
PS. This isn't for me.. I don't tamer PVM anymore and will not tamer PVP cause that's the gayest play style ever
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Tard the Paladin
Grandmaster
Hey @halygon
I do respect the work you do here but pet statloss is wrong, was wrong when it was implemented and will be wrong until the end of time. You're simply punishing the wrong play style. People keep talking about items lost when they are justifying pet statloss. This has nothing to do with items and or value of items lost when you die. Time is the only thing that has any real value to an aging UO population and this is an unreasonable TIME punishment. If you can't see that I fear we must duel to the death to resolve this!
PS. This isn't for me.. I don't tamer PVM anymore and will not tamer PVP cause that's the gayest play style ever
I understand why tamers would want stat loss taken out. The idea isn't all that terrible to me since it might make a lot of players happy. However, dexer's already get the short end of the stick when it comes to end game content and PvM ability. They should be given proper consideration as well if one PVM template is going to have penalties reduced.
The fact that I am the only one that sticks up for dexer's saddens me. There are a lot of dexer's out there who have messaged me in IRC and forums to share knowledge about the meta talisman. I wish they would chime on this issue. I know that I am not the only dexer who thinks it would be fair to allow us to wear nice gear if tamers suffer no penalty for pet death.
I see the distinction Lexington makes between gear and time. I agree that time is more precious. However, the 100k worth of scrolls that a meta requires after death is the best comparison you can make to what a dexer loses when they die with high end gear. My opinion is that if tamers risks are reduced with no pet stat loss then that is a MAJOR benefit for them. Its only fair that dexers also receive a risk reduction as well.
I agree with Halygon that it would be super trammy for these to be implemented. But it would be fun to go out on my dexer with all the super gear I've amassed over time but rarely use. Also note that you don't see every red in game complaining about the idea of their loot being reduced. I suspect that this is because we don't really care about the loot.
With ideas of perma stat being introduced for reds and tamers grieving over their pets death then I ask what is a solution that makes all players happy? Perhaps reducing the risk of death for pvm'ers is a viable option. Reds would still keep the game edgy and enjoy the hunt. Meanwhile, dexers and tamers can enjoy PvM'ing without fear of major risk. It seems like a win for both reds and blues. But like I said, yes it is super trammy and I understand why that would be frowned upon.
Lexington
Grandmaster
Hey Tard you seem like a nice guy and I'm glad you feel the need to stick up for the dexer class but this topic is about statloss.
For some unknown (jealous ;P) reason everyone wants to turn it into a balance issue between PVM play styles. The PVM balance issue was corrected with the addition of talismans. Both dexers and mages have been given a huge PVM bonus with this fantastic addition! Thanks for that UOF staff!
The other issue non tamers want to focus on is the illusion that the tamer losses nothing when they die so there is no risk vs. reward. If you've ever played a mage (most dexers have not) you would know that the typical mage and tamer carry the exact same equipment, aside from the instrument and extra bandages the typical bard / tamer carries. So when you die and 99% of the time when your pet dies it's because you're dead. You loose the exact same equipment that every mage on the shard looses when they die. Should we start talking about statloss for every mage template on UOF because they have the same risk vs. reward??
Tard the Paladin
Grandmaster
I've adequately compared how a dexer values his gear as a tamer values their pet. They are both separate tools in their arsenal. A meta's skill loss compared to a dexer's finest gear is very comparable in terms of costs. Taking the risk away from one would warrant taking the risk away from the other. I recognize that the topic of the post is about pet stat loss; however, if that issue is being considered I think it more than fair to draw the comparison to other classes.
From what Halygon expresses its more of an issue of this being too Trammy. That is a valid point. The gear on a mage or tamer is negligible. The cost of gm barbed, instrument, regs, pots is going to be a few thousand gold, essentially a few minutes of farming to regain. The larger issue is negating risk for a very powerful and lucrative meta pet.
A max'd out meta pet is the most powerful way to make money in the game. It is the biggest end game goal that's currently out there. Its very understandable that such an asset should come with a considerable amount of risk. UO is balanced on risk/reward. Simply having to put a lot of time and resources into training a meta pet shouldn't negate future risk associated with using a meta. That's simply the cost of attaining the meta pet. It's logical that the most powerful PVM tool in the game would have substantial risk whenever it is utilized. But like I said, if the player base really wants to remove that risk, then I ask that dexers be given consideration as well.
As far as stat loss for mage templates, I would say that a balanced risk/reward system wouldn't warrant the need for that. The reason that pets should face higher consequences is because they drastically increase the amount of reward a player can reap. A high initial cost and time investment doesn't justify removing future risk associated with such a powerful tool. A balanced system would be a continuous consideration of risk/reward.
Lexington
Grandmaster
Lexington
Grandmaster
What I can't understand is why in the hell people keep trying to compare a dexer playstyle to a tamer... the time and gold invested isn't even close.
Tard, I'm not here to make the world all balanced and shit. Some classes are stronger and more valuable than others. That's the way it's supposed to be... and that's why you get to choose your own path. If every class was equal UO would be boring as shit!
To me it seems that you're stuck on this dexer issue and the value of the gear you loose when you die and because of this you feel another template should have equal risk............... Tard you're playing a disposable toon that can be re-made inside a few hours... you can't compare it to a tamer that takes months.
I'm not sure what Halygon is referring to when he says too trammy but removing pet statloss is not being too trammy. In fact it would be a step in the right direction to correcting major griefing problem that it caused.
Bobby123
Grandmaster
WORDS OF WISDOM ^^