Pet skill loss is impossible to work with.....

[Bromista]

It has been stated that staff likes the increase in demand for skill scrolls.

Still would be plenty of demand for SS if TheFallen's suggestion were implemented. Not that there isn't plenty of demand for raising player skills cause there's that also...

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

SS would be more in demand if reds were also perma-stated.

 

[GoD PaRtiCal]

SS would be more in demand if reds were also perma-stated.

 

[halygon]

So one of the things many people here said is that faction pets are way slower than non faction pets, now that they all have the same speed, can we non faction players please get the same treatment and be able to pay 5k to not get skill loss?

@halygon

I think if you want to have the same treatment, you would need to be open to death by other blues anywhere you go like factioners are. That mechanic only exists to entice people to join factions.

 

[aIck]

SS would be more in demand if reds were also perma-stated.

Highly doubt it, I bet most would re-roll for a fraction of the cost or just plain leave

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

Pssh, reds' and their trammel ways.

 

[MZ3K]

It has been stated that staff likes the increase in demand for skill scrolls.

Still would be plenty of demand for SS if TheFallen's suggestion were implemented. Not that there isn't plenty of demand for raising player skills cause there's that also...

If that's how they want it to work, they should at least make mage and resist ss easier to find on the market.

Increasing the drop rate of those scrolls would probably increase demand: I don't even check vendors for them now because they never have any. If I knew that that vendors often have them, then I would go shopping every time my pet dies.

 

[MZ3K]

I think if you want to have the same treatment, you would need to be open to death by other blues anywhere you go like factioners are. That mechanic only exists to entice people to join factions.

Pretty much anytime you see a factioner, you can expect her to try to kill you whether you're in factions or not.

In any case, it's not about having the same treatment as factions. It's about death not being more punitive than it is for the people who seem to deserve punishment the most (murderers). If pets are your offense, then their stats are your stats. So when a pets die, the tamer is effectively perma stated; whereas the murderer only gets temporarily stated when she dies. Moreover, the murderer has the option to instantly pay gold to avoid the stat loss; the tamer doesn't.

I'd pay 30k to have my pet res'd without stat loss. At least it would save me the hour it takes to find a mage ss.

At the very very least, change it so that pets don't suffer stat loss when a murderer kills her victims' pets. Killing pets doesn't add anything to the game and just makes people angry. (E.g. The OP wrote that it almost almost prompted her - a long time player - to quit.)

 

[halygon]

Pretty much anytime you see a factioner, you can expect her to try to kill you whether you're in factions or not.

In any case, it's not about having the same treatment as factions. It's about death not being more punitive than it is for the people who seem to deserve punishment the most (murderers). If pets are your offense, then their stats are your stats. So when a pets die, the tamer is effectively perma stated; whereas the murderer only gets temporarily stated when she dies. Moreover, the murderer has the option to instantly pay gold to avoid the stat loss; the tamer doesn't.

I'd pay 30k to have my pet res'd without stat loss. At least it would save me the hour it takes to find a mage ss.

At the very very least, change it so that pets don't suffer stat loss when a murderer kills her victims' pets. Killing pets doesn't add anything to the game and just makes people angry. (E.g. The OP wrote that it almost almost prompted her - a long time player - to quit.)

I hear what you are saying and I think this thread has covered the topic a number of times, including some posts from me. Its been rehashed to death really.

I can give you the staff's view on this though.

Pet skill loss is not a punishment, but a balancing mechanic. This is not equivalent to the temp stat loss that murderers receive from having their head turned in. They cannot be compared at all, even though I know its a popular topic to bring up with this threads topic.

 

[MZ3K]

. They cannot be compared at all.

Could you give some reason why that's the case? They seem pretty comparable to me.

If my best pet loses magery skill, then my means of outputting magery damage is decreased.
If I lose magery skill, then my means of outputting magery damage is decreased.

You might say that you can use another pet, but that almost always means using a pet with lower magery, so my means of outputting magery damage is decreased in that case well.

I don't want to be argumentative; I'm just curious.

 

[MZ3K]

You had said that skill lost didn't have an appreciable effect on how well pets perform.

I don't even have 80 resist on a good number of my completed pvp chars. No biggie really.

If that's true, then how is this true?

Pet skill loss is not a punishment, but a balancing mechanic. .

 

[halygon]

Could you give some reason why that's the case? They seem pretty comparable to me.

If my best pet loses magery skill, then my means of outputting magery damage is decreased.
If I lose magery skill, then my means of outputting magery damage is decreased.

You might say that you can use another pet, but that almost always means using a pet with lower magery, so my means of outputting magery damage is decreased in that case well.

I don't want to be argumentative; I'm just curious.

Pet skills are not player skills. Reducing player skills have a much larger impact on a persons game than pet skills. Pet skills work differently and really don't need to be maxxed to be fully effective - Player skills need to be at specific levels to be effective at all (which is why people don't play reds while they are in stat loss).

 

[halygon]

You had said that skill lost didn't have an appreciable effect on how well pets perform.


If that's true, then how is this true?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

 

[MZ3K]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Earlier in this thread you argued that pet skill loss generally doesn't affect how powerful the pet is.

If pet skill loss makes no appreciable difference in that regard, then how does pet skill loss balance anything?

In other words:

If a mechanic does balance the game, then balancing the game is a consequence of that mechanic.
If pet skill loss is effectively inconsequential, then it has no consequences.
So balancing the game cannot be a consequence of pet skill loss.

 

[halygon]

Earlier in this thread you argued that pet skill loss generally doesn't affect how powerful the pet is.

If pet skill loss makes no appreciable difference in that regard, then how does pet skill loss balance anything?

In other words:

If a mechanic does balance the game, then balancing the game is a consequence of that mechanic.
If pet skill loss is effectively inconsequential, then it has no consequences.
So balancing the game cannot be a consequence of pet skill loss.

I see where you are trying to go with this, but my answers are not contradictory.

Also, I don't want to rehash this thread (yet again). This exact conversation has occurred in many threads over and over... and over again. The staff's view on it has not changed nor has the reasons. These threads exist only because this is a feature that tamers feel if they complain enough about that it will be changed since it was changed to be more strict previously. I know of no plans to change this mechanic in the near future.

 

[MZ3K]

I see where you are trying to go with this, but my answers are not contradictory.

They are.

Also, I don't want to rehash this thread (yet again). This exact conversation has occurred in many threads over and over... and over again. The staff's view on it has not changed nor has the reasons. These threads exist only because this is a feature that tamers feel if they complain enough about that it will be changed since it was changed to be more strict previously. I know of no plans to change this mechanic in the near future.

These threads persist because people post in them. I posted in this one because I want to play on a server with a healthy population. This mechanic is not conducive to that.

Ok power ..you spawn stealing, pet killing, evil people .... you win
I quit
Have a good life ruining players fun!

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

Those answers ARE contradictory.

And if you want to persist in saying they aren't I'm really interested in how they are not.

 

[halygon]

Last post before I abandon this thread.

They are.

They aren't. It is a balancing issue because it gives a risk for using such powerful weapons. The risk is not great, however because a small bit (1 point) of skill loss does not really affect your pet performance. If you continue to lose small bits, however it will noticeably affect pet performance - some skills more than others. Resist and magery being ones that won't really affect the performance too much.

So not contradictory at all. You get small risks for big weapons but in the end it gives a good balance to their usage.

/done

 

[MZ3K]

Last post before I abandon this thread.


They aren't. It is a balancing issue because it gives a risk for using such powerful weapons. The risk is not great, however because a small bit (1 point) of skill loss does not really affect your pet performance. If you continue to lose small bits, however it will noticeably affect pet performance - some skills more than others. Resist and magery being ones that won't really affect the performance too much.

So not contradictory at all. You get small risks for big weapons but in the end it gives a good balance to their usage.

/done

The contradiction remains.

The thread started with Cinder saying that the continual loss of small bits of skill is impossible to work with.
You then replied that the effect of the coninual loss of small bits of skill isn't appreciable
In your most recent reply you said that that effect is appreciable.

Which is it?

 

[ton loc]

Tldr: @Cinder is still here.