ANYONE else tired of gluttony saying anyone can do it....

[yamman]

It will have rewards at both ends, it needs to be looked at for sure.

Instead of the snide comments, some suggestions or constructive feed back based on your play style would be more beneficial.

Thank you

Why just have a go at @ton loc ? 3 previous posts were negative or "snide".

@Shane Can you honestly see large group fights happening on a regular basis? Becoming a core part of UOF? OR is it more likley that like all other UO servers (including OSI) that it is more about lots of different groups of people, for PvM and PvP..

 

[EvilAcid]

@snuggy Ya, I have done my fair share of champ's on OSI servers. Have actually only done the harrower once, but our group of blues was able to defend our harrower from a pack of raiding reds. Just had people casting walls with the pvm toons fighting harrower while the blue pvpers fought outside the walls vs the raiders. Was actually a blast.

 

[EvilAcid]

Which is why I have always been in favor of anything towards more felucca ruleset, and never had a problem with Eqms tactics. It comes down to attitude and greed. Can only beat a dead horse for so long before that ***** decomposes on you.

 

[MZ3K]

"Champion spawns were re-introduced during Publish 16 as a way to reinvigorate the dead Felucca landscape. The purpose was to "Establish an area where non-consensual PvP can thrive for a significant number of UO’s players" and "Provide meaningful and compelling rewards for players that successfully adventure in the specified areas." The system was a smashing success drawing hundreds of players per shard to Felucca, many who vowed never to go back and some who had never ventured there before. This was due in part by players losing nothing except the potential rewards, upon death a player and all their items would be transported to a Felucca town healer such as the one in Britain."

http://www.uoguide.com/Champion_Spawns

That's irrelevant. UO:R was not free to play - people played on one account; it was a hard gaining system; murder counts lasted 8 hours of logged-in time; and there was permanent stat-loss. You literally risked dozens of hours of character development time to raid a champ. On UO:F you risk having to use a duplicate character for a few hours or two days at most - i.e. nothing.

If you want to appeal to how it was, then appeal to how it was and ask for harsher punishment for reds. UO:R was merciless on them.

 

[Shane]

champ spawns are end game content, every champ was raided on osi. if a guild is getting raided at the end of a champ then they aren't ready for that content. Take a guild like $ or kings, they have a group of blues ready to fight if their champ gets contested. With stat loss, a ton of champs do not get raided and to leave pvmers free to farm end game content(120 tames, relics, etc) with no risk is a mistake.

Comparing this to OSI, the osi that was a decade or more ago isn't really a standard argument anymore i don't think.

Back then there were TENS of thousands more people playing.
There's an unbalance of the division of reds/blues for the current population that we need to look at.

What may worked for OSI, may not work here, or what worked here when we launched, may not work now with more people.

As you grow, you need to change how certain things work, if that makes sense.

 

[snuggy]

So what is being said is, if a majority of the population complains about PKers we will inch towards trammel until they are satisfied?

 

[Garillo]

So what is being said is, if a majority of the population complains about PKers we will inch towards trammel until they are satisfied?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but plenty of people outside of Kings/$/EQMS sell power scrolls and relics.

 

[Skye Wolfbane]

The reds are more trammel than anyone. They have no cut zones to avoid statting, which they still complain about when they are statted which is way more lax on this server than anything. And it's not just Brit Bridge..they've been given several areas in which to fight safely. And yet blues are told they can't ever be safe or it's trammel.

The reds that roll champs aren't there to finish the champ so not sure the point system will affect anything. They're just there to wreak havoc and lol about it. Won't stop them from raiding at the end.

The recall thing is a decent idea.

Making more content for large pvm groups will help since now, a larger guild can only really do champs if they want to do stuff together. More pvm content will give them more places to look and raid, giving better odds.

 

[Shane]

The reds are more trammel than anyone. They have no cut zones to avoid statting, which they still complain about when they are statted which is way more lax on this server than anything. And it's not just Brit Bridge..they've been given several areas in which to fight safely. And yet blues are told they can't ever be safe or it's trammel.

The reds that roll champs aren't there to finish the champ so not sure the point system will affect anything. They're just there to wreak havoc and lol about it. Won't stop them from raiding at the end.

The recall thing is a decent idea.

Making more content for large pvm groups will help since now, a larger guild can only really do champs if they want to do stuff together. More pvm content will give them more places to look and raid, giving better odds.

Yeah all the staff has said that reds have more trammy benefits than blues in a lot of ways for a long time.

We are open TO ALL suggestions, we will work it out so its great for everyone or at least an even balance everyone can agree on to a point.

 

[Garillo]

The reds are more trammel than anyone. They have no cut zones to avoid statting, which they still complain about when they are statted which is way more lax on this server than anything. And it's not just Brit Bridge..they've been given several areas in which to fight safely. And yet blues are told they can't ever be safe or it's trammel.

The reds that roll champs aren't there to finish the champ so not sure the point system will affect anything. They're just there to wreak havoc and lol about it. Won't stop them from raiding at the end.

The recall thing is a decent idea.

Making more content for large pvm groups will help since now, a larger guild can only really do champs if they want to do stuff together. More pvm content will give them more places to look and raid, giving better odds.

Guard zones are just fine for blues and probably the closest comparison for "no cut" zones when side-by-side with reds.

Regardless of population size, point remains that champ spawns are end-game content. It's the ultimate risk v. reward. The unwillingness of others to put their greed and differences aside to accomplish a goal should not be a factor in the changes of mechanics.

We've done champs with 4-5 people. We've done champs with 25 people. We've raided and been raided, both successfully and unsuccessfully. As I stated before:

More people = less chance at individual loot but more chance with group success

Less people = more chance at individual loot but less chance with group success.

This is risk versus reward. If people want to be greedy and run a skeleton crew at champs for the highest possibility of individual reward, let them. It's very doable. There are many guilds out there that are capable but not willing and this should be a problem solved by the players via diplomacy.

 

[snuggy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but plenty of people outside of Kings/$/EQMS sell power scrolls and relics.

Turning into modern MMO mechanics to cater to casuals so there is a larger player base. Seriously, it's end-game content. You have a chance to make as much gold doing ANYTHING ELSE in the entire game with 1/3 the amount of work. The funny thing is I would bet a majority of these people complaining do champions throughout the day when EQMS isn't on, but OH LAWDY ITS PRIME TIME AND I CANT GET FREE GOLD??????? WOW. THIS GAME IS FULL OF GRIEFERS. I QUIT.

This entitlement of "i deserve items" destroyed warcraft, and it will do the same here. This is a niche game now, and trying to open it up to everyone is going to inadvertently flush the entire purpose of ultima online down the drain if you are going to please casuals who CHOSE to play on a Felucca server.


Harsher penalties for reds would be a better start than giving blues AND reds powerscrolls, excluding reds entirely, or some system that makes it so you can't raid for items. I don't really have a good idea of what would work other than allowing blues a little more leeway in terms of defending champion spawns. (no marking inside dungeons)


SECOND EDIT; I should also note I don't do champion spawns because my alliance gets raided during prime time ..but... I chose to play on a Felucca server. Them's the bricks. I will stick to killing liches and orcs, slowly amassing my wealth patiently instead of reaching out my hands screaming "GIMME GIMME GIMME! HE HAS IT AND I DONT. NOT FAIR!!!!"

 

[Shane]

Turning into modern MMO mechanics to cater to casuals so there is a larger player base. Seriously, it's end-game content. You have a chance to make as much gold doing ANYTHING ELSE in the entire game with 1/3 the amount of work. The funny thing is I would bet a majority of these people complaining do champions throughout the day when EQMS isn't on, but OH LAWDY ITS PRIME TIME AND I CANT GET FREE GOLD??????? WOW. THIS GAME IS FULL OF GRIEFERS. I QUIT.

This entitlement of "i deserve items" destroyed warcraft, and it will do the same here. This is a niche game now, and trying to open it up to everyone is going to inadvertently flush the entire purpose of ultima online down the drain if you are going to please casuals who CHOSE to play on a Felucca server.


Harsher penalties for reds would be a better start than giving blues AND reds powerscrolls, excluding reds entirely, or some system that makes it so you can't raid for items. I don't really have a good idea of what would work other than allowing blues a little more leeway in terms of defending champion spawns. (no marking inside dungeons)


SECOND EDIT; I should also note I don't do champion spawns because my alliance gets raided during prime time ..but... I chose to play on a Felucca server. Them's the bricks. I will stick to killing liches and orcs, slowly amassing my wealth patiently instead of reaching out my hands screaming "GIMME GIMME GIMME! HE HAS IT AND I DONT. NOT FAIR!!!!"

Good feedback. Thank you

 

[Garillo]

Raids are a deterrent that protect the economy. Whether it's crafting materials or power scrolls, if loot is guaranteed simply based off time invested- value is lost.... You're taking a high-risk gamble with a delicate economy.

 

[Shane]

Raids are a deterrent that protect the economy. Whether it's crafting materials or power scrolls, if loot is guaranteed simply based off time invested- value is lost.... You're taking a high-risk gamble with a delicate economy.

Economy has absolutely NOTHING to do with this.
It's about players not even bothering to play because any work they invest no matter how long can be swept away in under 5 minutes by a larger group of players.

That's the problem i see now, that i didn't before anyways

 

[ton loc]

In the end, champs are end game content with the possibility of receiving a 12+ mil item.. End game on a fel server = you gotta defend it. Plain and simple.

I can almost guarantee that if you look at the last 10 people who sold 120 tames/relics/whatever high end champ rewards, I would be able to successfully put money on the fact that no more than 2/5 are sold by those that raid champs. That's not a crazy number.. Those are just odds. It's a numbers/luck/skill game in the end.

There is a system for escaping a champ just like there is a system for racking up a score, and they go hand in hand. In no way, shape or form should it be any easier to reap the expensive rewards. The power scroll market is completely fucked already.. Shit, ANY market other than high end PS and relics is in the shitter. You want it to get even worse? You want the power scrolls you may have to work a little harder for now to become easier to obtain AND worthless? Because that's what will happen.

 

[ton loc]

Economy has absolutely NOTHING to do with this.
It's about players not even bothering to play because any work they invest no matter how long can be swept away in under 5 minutes by a larger group of players.

That's the problem i see now, that i didn't before anyways

There ya go. Emphasized your problem for you.

 

[Garillo]

Economy has absolutely NOTHING to do with this.
It's about players not even bothering to play because any work they invest no matter how long can be swept away in under 5 minutes by a larger group of players.

That's the problem i see now, that i didn't before anyways

This is a topic that innately *does* involve the economy, because we're talking about the possibility of expensive, end-game loot being put into circulation.

People not being able to freely do a champ with guaranteed loot keeps markets from becoming super saturated.

What about the players who can cope with the rule set and enjoy UO for what it is?

Honest question: Do you think those who support a core change like this outweigh those who don't?

Are you going to protect MotM farmers and their chance at a relic, seeing as one can grind for hours only to have a larger group of 2-3 people take their stuff?

 

[Derwolf]

Comparing this to OSI, the osi that was a decade or more ago isn't really a standard argument anymore i don't think.

Back then there were TENS of thousands more people playing.
There's an unbalance of the division of reds/blues for the current population that we need to look at.

What may worked for OSI, may not work here, or what worked here when we launched, may not work now with more people.

As you grow, you need to change how certain things work, if that makes sense.

i'm not talking about a decade ago, talking about current

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb1ptskSkGo&feature=youtu.be&t=3m37s



plz don't cater to the bluebie tears

 

[snuggy]

Economy has absolutely NOTHING to do with this.
It's about players not even bothering to play because any work they invest no matter how long can be swept away in under 5 minutes by a larger group of players.

That's the problem i see now, that i didn't before anyways

I don't see anything wrong with game mechanics, I see a player-base who doesn't want to do anything other than kill monsters, make millions of gold, and sit around at the bank.

You shouldn't change mechanics just because people don't want to share and group up...It literally takes 8 blues to keep up walls and fields while the pvm group finishes the champion. That is how it has always been done on any Felucca shard.

You could take all the people posting in this thread, give them 3 macros. Paralyze field. Fire field. Wall of stone...you would increase your odds of survival.

I would COMPLETELY understand the complaints if any of these people* actually FOUGHT BACK, 90% of them recall or hide then come post here on the forums or in IRC...literally, they are doing nothing to combat the raids. just sitting on their asses, complaining, and getting rules on the server changed.

The only issue here is that a ton of reds and blues can be gated in right next to an altar giving anyone who isn't a professional champion killer doing the champion spawn 0 time to react.

If it takes someone an hour to do a champ, you can't expect them to be attentive and ready for a raid every second of that hour...I understand that. But not sitting there hiding at the champion spawn instead of defending it...then whining about zergs.

 

[Leggoo]

I remember a time when 247 was the largest guild on the server. When people began bitching, Shane disbanded the guild and banned all the members. Seems things are worse now, and this is coming from someone in EQMS. People are jumping ship to another server and now the admits decide to do something about the bitching. Wonder why he won't disband EQMS like he did 247.. Hmm.. Instead he caters to the trammies.. Interesting dilemma..