A Possible Solution to The Problem of PvP

[Winstonian]

When I used to PVP we would have multiple group fights against the same group multiple times a night (3-4 hours). We would win two fights, lose two fights, etc. Your proposal would potentially keep people from keep fighting because they have reached their cap against the same people they have been fighting for the last 4 hours. Again, this is just my opinion and a minor point in the overall flaws. Although I enjoyed killing my enemies, that was enough incentive for me so I am clearly not the target market for pixel rewards for pvp.

Yet, if the PvP field was flooded with new players, including casual, solo, and PvM chars, the player cap wouldn't be an issue.

There are no concerning exploits to a weighted lottery. The exploits that existed ("making 10000 accounts" and "hitting the same person over and over") are either ridiculous or were resolved with the proposed changes or weighted lottery concept. And if you don't agree with pixel reward PvP, why suggest a structure similar to factions, which were created to provide incentives to PvP?

But whatever. This suggestion, which variations have been made numerous times, isn't for me. I don't need this. I'll happily just PvM between playing other games. Other players don't need this: they'll either do the same, or stop playing completely. This is an idea that UOF needs. UO without structured PvP that caters to all players becomes a toxic little playground for the arrogant and group gankers. The same group that'll ***** and moan when other players adapt (stun tamers?), and that tell you you're "bad at PvP" for suggesting something they themselves previously suggested. That's the PvP group that's catered to on UOF, and that's completely backwards.

Feel free to close this thread. Regardless of the excuse, it'll go down as another unsuccessful attempt to improve UOF.

 

[Swayze]

We have already established that we are on the same page with a weighted lottery. There is no need to repeat this for the 100th time.

Our systems are VERY similar. The difference is you want it to be easier for players to "get their cap" and be based on damage per player which just does not work.

PVP shouldn't really be an entry level thing anyways. In any game similar to UO you can't just install the game and hop into PVP. You need to watch youtube, study the mechanics, listen to vets, get tips, figure out the current meta. Not only that, you need to fund your PVP somehow so PVM is a great stepping stone for this.

 

[Winstonian]

Nope. It doesn't need to be damage done. It does need to be based on a metric that doesn't give favor to groups vs individuals. There has not been another suggestion, outside of damage done, that accomplishes this.

 

[Winstonian]

And none of this has been about new players. Casual, solo and PvM players aren't necessarily new to UOF.

 

[Bromista]

Well I meant that in regards to batman I think he's missing the point.

Honestly the quality of PvP is lacking if we're talking about PKing under, well, damn near any circumstances. Really nothing that can be done from that aside from giving other rewards for fighting.

So our other option is to engage in militia, which some are saying is a totally suitable system for consensual PvP and they are probably right, and fight over pots and bronze runic weapons...the missing element is a suitable reward.

side from being "the thing" we are trying to give alternatives to, PK'ing doesn't have much place in this discussion. There's two systems in place that we can utilize to do so and that's where the focus needs to be moving forward I see discussion of PK'ing as only a step backwards here.

 

[Bromista]

Engage in militia...or participate in events...which have 0 reward/incentive and have been given 0 attention in the last few years even when there's fairly simple improvements that could be made just as a baseline show of good faith that competitive PvP can be given some attention...even if it's instanced (and if people want to grumble about that they can but it doesn't change the fact that people do indeed participate even if it's just for funsies...imagine if a little effort was made in that area again)

 

[Bromista]

And not to say militia wasn't a sign of competitive PvP being given attention...it was...and yes some players were asking for it and some weren't.

I don't think anyone has spoken a word against events being given a makeover tho and time and effort spent by staff can STILL go a long way - in every event moving forward.

 

[Winstonian]

Instead, getting everyone into structured PvP, by way of instance events or an incentive that caters to all, is seen as unnecessary. Structured PvP is reserved for the PvP Elite, and anyone that disagrees is either too new, too young or simply too bad to PvP in UO. Such a toxic mindset.

 

[Nekronos]

Personally I was hoping militias would lead to a little democratizing of pvp by getting all guilds to field a group in hopes of achieving Militia rewards. I think this can still be done - socially engineer more people into militias (or non traditional, newb pvpers) thus creating a higher probablity that lower skilled militia will encounter other lower more evenly matched militia. More people fighting closer to their weight class (because more people are fighting over something’s) and being exposed to the best of the best more often as well.

Everyone knows Militia lacks the rewards it needs, and everyone agrees it does t need to be huge amazing traditional PvE rewards like scrolls and relics.

My question remains why the hold up on testing a few things and gathering some numbers on it, then making changes and testing more. And testing more and more.

If people felt like we were more on track they’d stfu about it

 

[Bromista]

I hate not being able to edit. Yes people have spoken against events being given a total makeover but it's the same tired crap, takes too much staff time/effort yea yea heard it all before.

I would like to see a total makeover yes. Really just spit-shining what we already have would go a long way and I don't think anyone has ever argued with that. Fixing the waits, tweaking scoring, making slight adjustments to names and team selection, adjusting the arenas. There's stuff that can be done right now.

Do that, give it a little bit of attention, maybe do some events regularly but probably just rely on announcements and staffers to pop off events manually. Log it all. Let's party.

 

[Nappaca]

Meow meow

 

[AreYouKidden]

Personally I was hoping militias would lead to a little democratizing of pvp by getting all guilds to field a group in hopes of achieving Militia rewards. I think this can still be done - socially engineer more people into militias (or non traditional, newb pvpers) thus creating a higher probablity that lower skilled militia will encounter other lower more evenly matched militia. More people fighting closer to their weight class (because more people are fighting over something’s) and being exposed to the best of the best more often as well.

Everyone knows Militia lacks the rewards it needs, and everyone agrees it does t need to be huge amazing traditional PvE rewards like scrolls and relics.

My question remains why the hold up on testing a few things and gathering some numbers on it, then making changes and testing more. And testing more and more.

If people felt like we were more on track they’d stfu about it

I'm not sure how I fell back into this thread, but it's been several months now, and nothing has changed.. I feel like there's a ton of untapped potential being missed. Would love to see that change.

 

[Nekronos]

I agree. Currently I think since this thread began we’ve seen the fixing of some technical issues surrounding the reg point, it’s relocation a few times, the addition of the robes with some point burning attributes.

The same 3 “perks” are still the only three in game and seemingly represents the completion of militias.
Gruesome - this one probably is the most fought over? PvP tamer groups like the pet res and gruesome yields the most points to spend on this. So working well and seems to me “on track”

Reg Price Point - it worked then was broken then got fixed. It currently works...do people capture it? Maybe they do, but for this point to feel impactful, you have to have a rather niche playstyle. Basically it lasts for such a short amount of time that you’d have to have a very narrow focus of capturing the discounted reg point then immediately attempting a bulk buy to make a difference of substance. This point is probably “on track” it’s just that taken as 33% of the total militia potential reward, its less than edge of your seat entertainment.

Champ Point - This perk “works”...but why? Capture double points at champs, but points barely matter. If you needed the points to capture the minimum 5k score in a short period of time I guess it would help, but it’s so easy to get 5k score on a meta toon that who cares? This perk seems “off track”.

I suggest it be changed to drop a “Militia champ perk” to the highest scorer of the winning militia (transferable but only to same militia) this can be used to pop a champ that includes a militia scroll. Or alternatively could pop a champ that is totally random champ spawn (totally random roll for each level of spawn, levels 1 2 3 4 could be shame, covetous, oaks, Despise) at a current champ location for an ALL Militia champ - only militia members would get score/Damage mobs.
You could adjust some levels for it not to take forever...

That’s neither here nor there though, the biggest thing is that several new points should be introduced, I suggest 5.
Those points then should have 5 different perks applied with whatever timers and cool downs would be appropriate for each perk.
Then just start testing some perks. See what people want to go capture. See what’s OP and what’s not getting any traction at all. See what people are saying in chat, and how much militia activity is going on.
There are literally hundreds of suggestions on perks that could be tested.
The goal should be that there is enough meat on the bone here to get anyone who plays should feel a pull to come try. That means PvPer, Crafter, Resource, Farmer, Champer, MotMer, Tmappers, Fisher, and so on. By introducing more points and diversity of perk, you will invite literally everyone to come play. There will be two types of groups that get involved over time - PvP groups who go from point to point finding more action, and niche groups looking to capture specific points. These groups will encounter each other resulting in fights of bother matched and mismatched PvP skill, and I predict, a nice diffusion of rewards.

Oh yeah and the great thing is if something isn’t working or goes off the rails, we could always just pull the plug and remind everyone it’s all just a test.

 

[Lord Hampton Royce]

pvp is gone


its 2018, get a meta asap and join us in the fight against skeleton lords

 

[AreYouKidden]

That’s neither here nor there though, the biggest thing is that several new points should be introduced, I suggest 5.
Those points then should have 5 different perks applied with whatever timers and cool downs would be appropriate for each perk.
Then just start testing some perks. See what people want to go capture. See what’s OP and what’s not getting any traction at all. See what people are saying in chat, and how much militia activity is going on.
There are literally hundreds of suggestions on perks that could be tested.
The goal should be that there is enough meat on the bone here to get anyone who plays should feel a pull to come try. That means PvPer, Crafter, Resource, Farmer, Champer, MotMer, Tmappers, Fisher, and so on. By introducing more points and diversity of perk, you will invite literally everyone to come play. There will be two types of groups that get involved over time - PvP groups who go from point to point finding more action, and niche groups looking to capture specific points. These groups will encounter each other resulting in fights of bother matched and mismatched PvP skill, and I predict, a nice diffusion of rewards.

Oh yeah and the great thing is if something isn’t working or goes off the rails, we could always just pull the plug and remind everyone it’s all just a test.

Definitely need more capture points - curious though, what are your thoughts on making them all gruesomes, so you are just capturing points, and using those points to enact perks - as opposed to capturing specific perks? That way all the capture points are sought after / fought after, instead of just specific ones? It also means people could spend a spell PvP'n in a group, then say enable lower reagent cost during their down time, when they can actually use it to shop, instead of capturing a point,a nd then immediately having to go do the activity that the point entails, taking them back out of the PvP picture.

Otherwise I agree whole heartedly, we need more activity, right now you capture 1-2 points, and then have to wait 30 to 60 min in order for a capture point to come back up, so you can do it over again.. most times groups have found something else to do in that time.. If you keep the points rolling around, a new one coming available every 30 min, I think you could keep and build the activity through the night, instead of it petering out constantly..

 

[Nekronos]

Definitely need more capture points - curious though, what are your thoughts on making them all gruesomes, so you are just capturing points, and using those points to enact perks - as opposed to capturing specific perks? That way all the capture points are sought after / fought after, instead of just specific ones? It also means people could spend a spell PvP'n in a group, then say enable lower reagent cost during their down time, when they can actually use it to shop, instead of capturing a point,a nd then immediately having to go do the activity that the point entails, taking them back out of the PvP picture.

Otherwise I agree whole heartedly, we need more activity, right now you capture 1-2 points, and then have to wait 30 to 60 min in order for a capture point to come back up, so you can do it over again.. most times groups have found something else to do in that time.. If you keep the points rolling around, a new one coming available every 30 min, I think you could keep and build the activity through the night, instead of it petering out constantly..

Yeah making it all generic points that get spent on targets is fine too so long as you had all manner of perk to choose from. Although I do like the idea of a “crafter point” that would naturally generate more crafter on crafter violence.
While that’s sort of joking I think a varying ladder of points that allows for a groups of comparable skill and scrubbyness to vye for control over their specific points of interest

 

[lollo]

Just scrap this and go back to factions please

 

[KoldesLives]

what are your thoughts on making them all gruesomes, so you are just capturing points, and using those points to enact perks - as opposed to capturing specific perks? That way all the capture points are sought after / fought after, instead of just specific ones? It also means people could spend a spell PvP'n in a group, then say enable lower reagent cost during their down time, when they can actually use it to shop, instead of capturing a point,a nd then immediately having to go do the activity that the point entails, taking them back out of the PvP picture.

Ooooohhhh, I really like that a LOT. That's a great example of a small, easy chance that could be implemented today to immediately make militia more incentive without giving a direct reward or relic or something.

 

[KoldesLives]

easy change*

If I could control when I was able to use the points that we've collected, in the prime time of champing to turn on the champ point, or when our purchasers can get on and buy regs, that would be awesome. How it is now, you kind of have to remove yourself from champing to go do the capture point. If it was in your scenario, you could build up the points, then use them when you want. There would be kind of a meta within the militia about when to tactically use your points.

I'd also love it if there were multiple capture points in different cities that we don't go to now, making it so you need to fight all over the world. (This has been brought up previously by multiple people, I concur.)

You could shorten or raise the length of time that it takes to capture a point, so the points gained scale up accordingly - forcing the action all over, or in specific spots.

It's just such a damn shame because militia has so much potential, but it just needs a few tweaks to really have people look forward to doing it instead of just "meh... I guess I'll go stand in Brit as an orange."

 

[K A Z]

miltia so far has failed, let‘s go back to factions and try to come up with a functioning militia system - or just tweak factions. The main reason this switch was ever made was because a certain few cried about numbers in factions.. well guess what? UO is a mmorpg and if I want to zerg with my gipsy family I will.