K A Z
Grandmaster
Who takes the gold? Staff, right? So it's basically TAKEN OUT OF THE GAME. SO hard,man?! Anyways, I'm done with you and your threads.
Keep the "good suggestions" flowing!
A Possible Solution to The Problem of PvP
- Thread starter Winstonian
- Start date
Who takes the gold? Staff, right? So it's basically TAKEN OUT OF THE GAME. SO hard,man?! Anyways, I'm done with you and your threads.
Keep the "good suggestions" flowing!
Winstonian
Grandmaster
I don't even...
If they didn't want gold, they would remove gold. They want gold: gold is the driving currency on UOF. They just need gold to have value, and the value is established by the value of items that can be purchased with it. Interesting conversation though.
drasked
Grandmaster
De Medici
Grandmaster
The purpose of goldsinks is to sink gold.
De Medici
Grandmaster
Winstonian
Grandmaster
I mean, I explained this numerous times with context. You can, of course, forget that, but it doesn't really do anything.
Gold sinks exist to circulate gold: giving players a reason to spend their gold on things gives them a reason to earn gold, increasing the value of gold in the process. K A Z is arguing that making gold a reward for players is counter to the staff's intention with gold because they want gold removed (via gold sinks). This simply isn't true. Players want gold. Gold has value. Rewarding players with gold (with a weighted lottery) both attracts new players to PvP, doesn't reward PvM items for PvP, and gives players gold to spend on both gold sinks and in trades with other players. It's healthy for the UOF economy.
drasked
Grandmaster
"Gold sink is an economic process by which a video game's ingame currency ('gold'), or any item that can be valued against it, is removed. This process is comparable to financial repression in real economies."
Saying "the purpose of gold sinks isn't to remove gold from the game." is simply false by any populair definiton of the concept.
What KAZ said is true, staff is always looking for good gold sinks and introducing a mechanic to generate more gold goes against that.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
You misunderstand. K A Z is saying that the staff won't give out gold as a reward because they're trying to "get rid of it". That's ridiculous. Gold sinks exist so gold has value, not because gold is bad. Giving it out as a reward to only a few players each week only helps the UOF economy.
In this conversation, it's either gold (which has tremendous value here) or the only other things with value: PvM items. Either is fine.
drasked
Grandmaster
Nah, i think "the purpose of gold sinks isn't to remove gold from the game." is pretty clear and false.
What KAZ said is true, staff is always looking for good gold sinks and introducing a mechanic to generate more gold goes against that.
AreYouKidden
Grandmaster
I've said it a few times, I'm someone who likes PvP, bit currently does not PvP, because there is no incentive or progressive based system, it feels like a waste of my time, when I could be grinding farming other PvM goals... I have many friends who are the same way.. we would PvP more if there was a point to it. Reward the time I spend playing with something, anything... I'd even take a seasonal leaderboard to feel like I've accomplished something other than pissing away my resources by PvP'n...
Winstonian
Grandmaster
I admit that I took the notion of ''removing" gold literally, and misspoke as a result. My explanation (maintaining the value of gold by offering items worth spending it on) is the same as "removing gold from the server".
I don't think gold is the preferred reward (it wasn't mine for this), but the preferred rewards are almost all PvM items. So, if you refuse to put the items of value up as rewards in a weighted lottery, gold is the only other option to achieve this goal.
I also don't think gold is an issue, considering the number of expensive things desired on UOF. The general population's participation in structured PvP, though... it should never be this low on a UO server.
I don't think gold is the preferred reward (it wasn't mine for this), but the preferred rewards are almost all PvM items. So, if you refuse to put the items of value up as rewards in a weighted lottery, gold is the only other option to achieve this goal.
I also don't think gold is an issue, considering the number of expensive things desired on UOF. The general population's participation in structured PvP, though... it should never be this low on a UO server.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
I really do think there are a lot of players out there with the same mentality. Maybe the PvM is just that good... not sure... but the desire to progress towards PvM goals outweighs dying to organized groups repeatedly. If there was an incentive, I feel that it would change, and structured PvP is so crucial for UO.
AreYouKidden
Grandmaster
It's not even dying to organized groups.. give me PvP objectives with rewards and I'll die over and over, but the gameplay has to be fulfilling, otherwise I'm not doing it. PvM feels fulfilling. PvP currently feels like it sets me back.. remove that feeling and I probably split my time 50-50..
Winstonian
Grandmaster
I think a lot of players would.
https://www.uoforum.com/threads/convincing-people-to-engage-in-pvp.101746/
https://www.uoforum.com/threads/giving-militia-an-incentive-at-champs.99797/
https://www.uoforum.com/threads/the-potential-of-militias.99428/
https://www.uoforum.com/threads/incentives-for-pvp-proposed-system-included.94316/
https://www.uoforum.com/threads/incentives-for-pvp.94092/
Just doing my duty as a historian and providing reference for a bunch of threads found easily that have proposed some similar topic. Not even including pvp changes, simply the incentive topic, and with very little effort put into the scholarship.
https://www.uoforum.com/threads/giving-militia-an-incentive-at-champs.99797/
https://www.uoforum.com/threads/the-potential-of-militias.99428/
https://www.uoforum.com/threads/incentives-for-pvp-proposed-system-included.94316/
https://www.uoforum.com/threads/incentives-for-pvp.94092/
Just doing my duty as a historian and providing reference for a bunch of threads found easily that have proposed some similar topic. Not even including pvp changes, simply the incentive topic, and with very little effort put into the scholarship.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
Outstanding, thank you for the effort.
Swayze
Grandmaster
I have said this multiple times in this thread. Damage done will not work.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
Oh. I thought it was still being discussed.
The concern with damage done was exploitation, and a cap to damage done against one target, as well as the weighted lottery, essentially removes the impact of that exploitation completely. It would still reach out to casual and solo players, and would bring plenty of PvM chars to PvP.
Interested players in this thread, who aren't part of the PvP Elite, have expressed interest in such a system, stating that they would in fact PvP more often.
Is it possible to re-open this conversation? Tweaks and refinement may leave UOF with the right system to greatly increase server-wide interest in PvP.
AreYouKidden
Grandmaster
To be fair, the metric isn't important to me, it's more the fact that I'd like to see some reward/incentive for the time I put into any system, and right now PvP doesn't have one. It doesn't have to be relics, it can be any type of reward.. I personally would prefer PvP based deco... .(shields, crests, banners, suits of armor, weapon stands...)... It could be aesthetic, certain hue or flavor of gear for PvP'rs to show what activity they excel in. Could be PvP titles.. wahtever, something...
The activity doesn't have to be a daily ranking based thing, for regular rewards, it could be more of a progression based system like a Militias talisman, that levels up and allows you to unlock rewards at each level that you could purchase with bounty.. (or that you get once when you unlock the level so you couldn't repeatedly buy it)... There could be relics that unlock at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, that require different things to level, which unlock for unique PvP rewards as well.. like one that is based on damage done, one based on kills, one based on healing those flagged in PvP combat.. and a forth that does something.. *shrugs*
I do think Damage done is a metric that everyone could contribute towards, and do understand that it's exploitable, and believe a damage cap per day could help counter that. The reality is, there is not a system that you can design that isn't exploitable to some measure, but I'd ask why do we keep denying improvements for the 1% of people who manipulate them? Put in big punishments when those people are caught, and you'll find people are less inclined to break the rules.
PvM Talismans can be macro'd - people do it all the time, and nothing is done about it. I was jailed once for 24 hours for afk macroing Vivify (I went to get a drink and got caught up by the kids). It's not a huge punishment, but for me it was enough I didn't make that mistake again. I think it should have been a stricter punishment, wipe the level if a person gets caught, wipe all the levels.. plus jail them... The same could be said for manipulating the PvP system. Huge punishments are a deterrent.
The activity doesn't have to be a daily ranking based thing, for regular rewards, it could be more of a progression based system like a Militias talisman, that levels up and allows you to unlock rewards at each level that you could purchase with bounty.. (or that you get once when you unlock the level so you couldn't repeatedly buy it)... There could be relics that unlock at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, that require different things to level, which unlock for unique PvP rewards as well.. like one that is based on damage done, one based on kills, one based on healing those flagged in PvP combat.. and a forth that does something.. *shrugs*
I do think Damage done is a metric that everyone could contribute towards, and do understand that it's exploitable, and believe a damage cap per day could help counter that. The reality is, there is not a system that you can design that isn't exploitable to some measure, but I'd ask why do we keep denying improvements for the 1% of people who manipulate them? Put in big punishments when those people are caught, and you'll find people are less inclined to break the rules.
PvM Talismans can be macro'd - people do it all the time, and nothing is done about it. I was jailed once for 24 hours for afk macroing Vivify (I went to get a drink and got caught up by the kids). It's not a huge punishment, but for me it was enough I didn't make that mistake again. I think it should have been a stricter punishment, wipe the level if a person gets caught, wipe all the levels.. plus jail them... The same could be said for manipulating the PvP system. Huge punishments are a deterrent.
Swayze
Grandmaster
Damage done with a cap still doesn't work. The system would force people to log on daily, hit their cap and then log off. Why not have a system in place that allows them to increase their chance of a reward at all time. If they want to PVP 24 hours and are PVPing towards a goal (reward) why not let them?