Defense Talisman Changes

[Lexington]

Exactly what?

Its your understanding... your perception. They worked exactly the way they were intended to work... Eppy stated it in this thread! Just because your perception (and others) were not accurate, its now an exploit of the mechanic!

 

[jkg8787]

Here is my opinion on this thread:
I made this talisman work against monsters and only monsters from the very beginning. It has never worked on players.

I have resisted changing it and argued against it up until the very end. I will still make that argument whenever my opinion is asked.

I feel that those who claim it affects pvp are being disingenuous. Using monsters and pets to kill other players does not seem to me to be the definition of player versus player combat.

Please change Phase Shift and Meta-Pet-Quicksilver then

 

[Ludwig]

The way you worded this, it seems like you don't understand the fundamental issue. You know that defense tali bonus does not and has never worked to reduce damage from players, correct?

Honestly? You may be right. Tell me how it works. It's the only talisman I haven't rolled yet but from what I understand every pvp dexer runs with defense tali which should be a red flag.

Defense tali and swamp dragon reduce damage from mobs, correct? Is this how it was working and then they added this nerf that disables the talisman if someone attacks you?

 

[Lexington]

Honestly? You may be right. Tell me how it works. It's the only talisman I haven't rolled yet but from what I understand every pvp dexer runs with defense tali which should be a red flag.

Defense tali and swamp dragon reduce damage from mobs, correct? Is this how it was working and then they added this nerf that disables the talisman if someone attacks you?

The talisman works with a mage too... you just can't level it as a mage. You need to reskill once leveled. I tried to get @eppy to reconsider the levelling but he took a hard stance!

 

[Darkarna]

they made the defense tali work against player pets why would they do that if they didnt want the tali to be used in pvp ?

So, this thread is split between those that state that the talisman does not work for PVP and others state it does, yet you have admitted yourself it does work for PVP.

• The talisman skills and bonuses are not applicable against other players or pets.

This is from the wiki also, so the point regarding that the talisman is not for PVP is void by your own comment and also from the wiki. The point I think most people want is clarity, nothing more. The change is heavily excessive, I have admitted that three times now yet, if the talisman still works against players pets or is used for an advantage while resisting tons of spawn *PK style* then obviously the talisman was either intended for certain PVP scenarios or its an oversight. To be honest, I am so glad I don't have to remedy things like this, cause apart from making it aggressor only disabled, there really isn't much else that could help towards the so-called balance that people are asking for.

Has the PK dexer/defence talisman numbers increased that bad for this to be even hot topic info?

Is this another attack on an overpopulation of red players?

 

[AngloSpanglo]

If the tali still works against pets then that should be disabled, because it actually is a pvp mechanic and goes against what the wiki states. Nowhere on the wiki does it state that it can't indirectly affect pvp. Even if shane implied that many years ago whenever it was created, you're screwing all the newer players who spent their time, effort, and money on a talisman with clearly defined capabilities that are now being destroyed.
"The talisman skills and bonuses are not applicable against other players or pets." - This clearly means that it does not reduce damage from players. No reasonable interpretation would take this as an assurance that it cannot indirectly affect pvp by reducing damage from mobs.

 

[Darkarna]

If the tali still works against pets then that should be disabled, because it actually is a pvp mechanic and goes against what the wiki states. Nowhere on the wiki does it state that it can't indirectly affect pvp. Even if shane implied that many years ago whenever it was created, you're screwing all the newer players who spent their time, effort, and money on a talisman with clearly defined capabilities that are now being destroyed.
"The talisman skills and bonuses are not applicable against other players or pets." - This clearly means that it does not reduce damage from players. No reasonable interpretation would take this as an assurance that it cannot indirectly affect pvp by reducing damage from mobs.

Then what is this entire debate about? Bare with me, because I think I am missing a point or five here. Forget about how it has been changed to completely disable the talisman from any form of combat, the root issue why these changes were implemented in the first place.

I am so confused.

And yeah, the talisman using the quench relic was able to pretty much negate all damage from pets *fire breath*

Oh and there was something about it back in 2016. Check here

 

[Lexington]

If the tali still works against pets then that should be disabled, because it actually is a pvp mechanic and goes against what the wiki states. Nowhere on the wiki does it state that it can't indirectly affect pvp. Even if shane implied that many years ago whenever it was created, you're screwing all the newer players who spent their time, effort, and money on a talisman with clearly defined capabilities that are now being destroyed.
"The talisman skills and bonuses are not applicable against other players or pets." - This clearly means that it does not reduce damage from players. No reasonable interpretation would take this as an assurance that it cannot indirectly affect pvp by reducing damage from mobs.

Wiki is or was update by players... it could easily be wrong on many things.

I might be stretching things a bit here as I don't absolutely remember all the conversations. I know the dev team has always hated pet PVP... the talisman was most likely allowed to work against pets for that reason... if it did work against pets??

 

[shirtandpantsman]

Please change Phase Shift and Meta-Pet-Quicksilver then

Seriously. I was against disabling defense tali on pvp because it's more complicated than people thought, and I was correct

But now that it has been done, why are other talismans not also disabled during PVP too?

Mage has Vivify demons
Zerker has phase shift
Meta pets obviously work in pvp

I don't know enough about the rogue talisman to say if anything in that would affect pvp though

 

[Zog'orium]

Its your understanding... your perception. They worked exactly the way they were intended to work... Eppy stated it in this thread! Just because your perception (and others) were not accurate, its now an exploit of the mechanic!

Fine let me change it so your perception of my post isn't wrong. Shane promised that the talisman when implemented would never affect pvp either directly or indirectly. Two guys fighting in the midst of spawn. One player with no talisman takes significant damage from spawn. The other player with a maxed out talisman takes little damage from spawn. Does that not indirectly effect the outcome of a fight?

 

[Zog'orium]

If the tali still works against pets then that should be disabled, because it actually is a pvp mechanic and goes against what the wiki states. Nowhere on the wiki does it state that it can't indirectly affect pvp. Even if shane implied that many years ago whenever it was created, you're screwing all the newer players who spent their time, effort, and money on a talisman with clearly defined capabilities that are now being destroyed.
"The talisman skills and bonuses are not applicable against other players or pets." - This clearly means that it does not reduce damage from players. No reasonable interpretation would take this as an assurance that it cannot indirectly affect pvp by reducing damage from mobs.

The problem is a lot of people were against these talisman when they were originally introduced. Felt it was the next step towards item based pvp. One of the main reasons they left the world of OSI/EA UO.

 

[De Medici]

if cant even remember names how you know these guys have defense talis

1. I also know that many people use meta pets and dont remember their names if they are no friends nore in my guild.
2. I never said many people are using the resi talisman on pvp chars.
3. Even if you dont have it on real pvp chars you can used it for pvp.

 

[Silly Santa]

A mechanic was introduced and worked exactly as @eppy intended. To many players spent to much time, gold and donation coins to be slapped in the face!

That about sums it up imop. Its things like this that cause players to not log on.

 

[De Medici]

If nobody logs on who are all these players I see in the dungeons and towns?

 

[Bromista]

Can I just have a laugh at Girana for a moment? He kept asking for names of ppl who abuse talismans in PvP, most of which are in POWER and he knows anyway. Loves to say people in his guild don't use them ...besides that one trash dexer POWER crossover named JG I think? and a few people that don't play anymore or who have quit and are glad to have quit their guild/alliance

...yeah of course you guys don't have a def tali when all of your chars are all either meta mages, stealth detect dumpster chars, or tamers.

Gutter players through and through.

 

[girana]

Can I just have a laugh at Girana for a moment? He kept asking for names of ppl who abuse talismans in PvP, most of which are in POWER and he knows anyway. Loves to say people in his guild don't use them ...besides that one trash dexer POWER crossover named JG I think? and a few people that don't play anymore or who have quit and are glad to have quit their guild/alliance

...yeah of course you guys don't have a def tali when all of your chars are all either meta mages, stealth detect dumpster chars, or tamers.

Gutter players through and through.

all these guys in POWER dont got tali or its lvl 1/2


there is only two guy who used max out talis alot

thats genocide pete and Patricus who both used it on a blues to fight us

 

[Xiulan]

Shane promised that the talisman when implemented would never affect pvp either directly or indirectly.

Where did he say this exactly? Is there a post you can link to or quote?

There really isn't much in this game that doesn't indirectly affect pvp in some way. I find it odd that he would promise something that was impossible to deliver, given how the defense tali was designed to work. Did he just not know or understand how it worked? Even for several years after it was implemented and people were actively using it?

 

[Grug'Bug]

Why not just make all talismans disable if you are red or grey? Eliminates using it to kill innocents, and eliminates stealthers flagging people's tali off.

 

[Lexington]

Why not just make all talismans disable if you are red or grey? Eliminates using it to kill innocents, and eliminates stealthers flagging people's tali off.

That will result in the same issue the agro change did... reds well be at a huge disadvantage.

 

[TyroneG]

That will result in the same issue the agro change did... reds well be at a huge disadvantage.

"disadvantage" = treated by mobs the same as everyone else. Your definition is kind of weird...



but to be fair if they were to change it for reds, or even aggressor only, I wouldn't be in favor of the change at all.