Defense Talisman Changes

[Lexington]

That's a pretty strong comment. For new players, who are getting into the server, don't have the capital to build up the relics, your telling us it's a matter of laziness if they don't grind up a relic? The reality is, if they want to play with all the meta paths, it could take them a couple of years to collect everything they want. Even if they only focus on the defense tali, for it's bonuses in PvP, it could take several millions to farm, plus all the XP games to make it worthwhile. That's not laziness, it's an extremely high bar. And on top of that, is the expectations that mages, bards, and tamers all use this defense tali for the PvP bonuses? (which btw, bards & tamers can't).

The swampy change, I personally don't like, it's something all players could acquire and use, and 500-750k isn't an insane amount, although it is a challenge for newer players, but there I could give you, some things need to be worked for, maybe it takes a couple of months for a player to get established, to afford the swampy, along with other things they invest in early on.. but the talisman grind was just too big of a gap, and that's just too much of a difference, and why the change needed to be made.

Also to suggest it's disrespectful to players who have spent the time, most of them got the talisman for the interests of PvM, and when they understand the bonuses in PvP, I'm sure they changed their use of it. For more recent ones who got it only for advantages in PvP, one could argue you've disrespected the designers by using the items not for their intended use. The reality is, some problems, bugs are only figured out through creative use over time, the staff would be doing an injustice to the player base, if they let it remain once they determined it was becoming an issue.

And lastly for those saying it wasn't even that much of a problem, then how come people are spending that much time grinding these up for the bonuses? There's obviously a reason they are doing it.

I said in a post before it would be nice to see something done about the high cost of relics.

 

[TyroneG]

I said in a post before it would be nice to see something done about the high cost of relics.

Yea the solution is obviously for every player to have a relic... Item based PVP ftw

 

[Lexington]

Yea the solution is obviously for every player to have a relic... Item based PVP ftw

Item based PVP... you're grasping at straws. The solution for the relics is to simply change the way they can be acquired.

 

[AngloSpanglo]

Getting griefed at champs today, guy just stealthing around turning my tali off every time I try to go in spawn. Wonderful. Tali is absolutely useless for the only type of PvM I enjoy now.

 

[TyroneG]

Item based PVP... you're grasping at straws. The solution for the relics is to simply change the way they can be acquired.

Grasping at straws? It is an expensive item that impacts PVP. How is that not item based PVP?

The solution to the relics is to disable them during combat - like they've done. It could however use a few tweaks to make sure that it is only turned off in consensual PVP. I'll say it again, but at a certain point you need to make a stance. Do you want PVM additions (talismans/metas/etc.) to be applicable in PVP or not - need to make that stance and stick to it regardless of if it is gonna make people upset or angry, whether or not it has existed in that capacity for a week or a year, or whether or not people paid millions of gold and/or spent a lot of time acquiring it.

 

[girana]

still waiting for names who used the talisman in pvp

 

[Lexington]

Grasping at straws? It is an expensive item that impacts PVP. How is that not item based PVP?

The solution to the relics is to disable them during combat - like they've done. It could however use a few tweaks to make sure that it is only turned off in consensual PVP. I'll say it again, but at a certain point you need to make a stance. Do you want PVM additions (talismans/metas/etc.) to be applicable in PVP or not - need to make that stance and stick to it regardless of if it is gonna make people upset or angry, whether or not it has existed in that capacity for a week or a year, or whether or not people paid millions of gold and/or spent a lot of time acquiring it.

Item PVP is when you have an item that gives you a direct damage advantage against another player. Those of us that played UO when it fell apart know all about it.

Here is my opinion on this thread:
I made this talisman work against monsters and only monsters from the very beginning. It has never worked on players.

I have resisted changing it and argued against it up until the very end. I will still make that argument whenever my opinion is asked.

I feel that those who claim it affects pvp are being disingenuous. Using monsters and pets to kill other players does not seem to me to be the definition of player versus player combat.

This pretty much sums it up from the guy who implemented the system. Right from the horses mouth and you guys still try and twist it into something its not?!?!

70% are against the change... the poll doesn't lie!

 

[Rick Steves]

Dont feel like reading all this but wanna state my opinion. Its a kick in the balls. I dont have alot of play time as it is and have invested a large majority of it into a defense talisman, only for it to not be very useful all a sudden. sucks.

 

[Lexington]

Dont feel like reading all this but wanna state my opinion. Its a kick in the balls. I dont have alot of play time as it is and have invested a large majority of it into a defense talisman, only for it to not be very useful all a sudden. sucks.

Most for the change, don't give a shit about your time... sad and selfish!

 

[Bobby123]

We need end game items like this for PVP players... if not people get bored and quit. Take a look around the docks it's empty. It's also crazy to think that every end game item should never enhance PVP. Your supposed to work your ass of to get to elite levels. This is UO it's not meant to be easy. If not why not just have it so you can set your template to max when you create your character. I've seen so many great, well established, PVP players quit over the years. Is it because there is nothing more for them to work towards?

Anyways... If we are to decide that end game items like this are detrimental to PVP we need to make the same assumption with slayer AR, slayer spell books and slayer weapons. Everything needs to be nullified, against mobs, once you enter combat.

@eppy has said everything that needs to be said IMO.

Extremely well said !

This post said it all !

 

[tankian]

Changes to defense talisman and swampy imo and most others is awful. More people will just get greifed now. The talisman and swamp Dragon damage reduction should only apply to the combat aggressor that initiated the attack or if you're red or grey or if the person getting attacked fights back

 

[Ranker]

I wanna just say the fact that I am sitting for 15 mins right now waiting to have my def tal bonus come back up due to a red attacking me is utter bullshit. So now I don't only have to run from them but if I get hit I am out 15 mins......Why? After one purple pot it was gone, thanks for making my way of farming a joke(more so than it already was).

Logging off until this is changed, This just left a real sour taste in my mouth.

 

[bradley-]

Anyways... If we are to decide that end game items like this are detrimental to PVP we need to make the same assumption with slayer AR, slayer spell books and slayer weapons. Everything needs to be nullified, against mobs, once you enter combat.

I vote for equality!

Slayer armor reduces damage in PvM as well.. Combat should remove the damage reduction.
Slayer weapons and slayer spellbooks would give an unfair advantage towards tamer pets too so those should be nullified in combat too.

If one is changed, they should all be changed. Using the same reasoning for the talisman adjustment, it'd be hypocritical to leave slayer armor and weapons unaltered.

 

[shirtandpantsman]

Are you absolutely sure that these talismans do not affect in battles with players on boses, champs etc?
Phase Shift if you pvp blocked, if you need fast approach the player,,, loot

yep i think need nerf everything)))
players spent an insane amount of money on relics, spending time on the pumping ... they deserved it !

+ players spend > 2 mil on Portal Gem and only 250 cash back compensation - strange innovations

and when start nerf Tamers PVP trics ?

https://www.uoforum.com/threads/defense-talisman-changes.98773/page-6#post-734488

agreed, disable ALL talismans if you're going to disable one

 

[shirtandpantsman]

Getting griefed at champs today, guy just stealthing around turning my tali off every time I try to go in spawn. Wonderful. Tali is absolutely useless for the only type of PvM I enjoy now.

I'd just like to point out that I predicted this a month ago on page 5 of the previous thread about this and was told nooo waaaay anybody would grief this way

https://uoforum.com/threads/pvp-balance-a-modest-proposal.97923/page-5

shirtandpantsman, Sep 15, 2017

I don't think disabling talisman on pvp is as simple as yall think, every flagging scenario would have to be accounted for, unless you want stealth griefers following around PVMers attacking them from hiding just to disable their talisman to be a dick, and other scenarios like that

....

 

[AreYouKidden]

I vote for equality!

Slayer armor reduces damage in PvM as well.. Combat should remove the damage reduction.
Slayer weapons and slayer spellbooks would give an unfair advantage towards tamer pets too so those should be nullified in combat too.

If one is changed, they should all be changed. Using the same reasoning for the talisman adjustment, it'd be hypocritical to leave slayer armor and weapons unaltered.

The big difference in the tali, compared to slayer armor, is that the tali is blessed. You can't take it away from a person..

 

[bradley-]

The big difference in the tali, compared to slayer armor, is that the tali is blessed. You can't take it away from a person..

Blessed or not, that's not the argument/reasoning behind the change. The reasoning is that the talisman affects PvP. Slayer armor is no different.. A full suit reduces damage from PvM by 50% and has a 75% poison (casted) resistance. (Not to mention newbied slayer armor tunics & gloves which are essentially blessed for blues)

Same effects, different item. If one is changed, both should be changed.

 

[Zog'orium]

Blessed or not, that's not the argument/reasoning behind the change. The reasoning is that the talisman affects PvP. Slayer armor is no different.. A full suit reduces damage from PvM by 50% and has a 75% poison (casted) resistance. (Not to mention newbied slayer armor tunics & gloves which are essentially blessed for blues)

Same effects, different item. If one is changed, both should be changed.

Maybe you have a point. Allow everything- talisman, swampies, weps, slayer armor to work as it did. Just unbless/unbond them - you want the advantage you just run the risk to loss it. HAR!

JK- but man that would be fun!!!!

 

[ProdigyOsi]

Nightmares have an unfair advantage over meta steeds because they have firebreath.

#nerfmares

Loljkbro

#givesteedsfirebreath

 

[steve-o]

Blessed or not, that's not the argument/reasoning behind the change. The reasoning is that the talisman affects PvP. Slayer armor is no different.. A full suit reduces damage from PvM by 50% and has a 75% poison (casted) resistance. (Not to mention newbied slayer armor tunics & gloves which are essentially blessed for blues)

Same effects, different item. If one is changed, both should be changed.

it's a big difference as said before tali and dragon are blessed/bonded and you will never loose them

slayer weapons dont work on meta pets
slayer armors don't do shit in pvp situation not like the def talisman, it was a real advantage

and if you want ot go pvp with slayer armor... you are stupid or fukin rich