The meta issue

yourdaddy

Grandmaster
Hey everyone

Most might not agree with this, but I feel like it is fucking things up a lot here.

The market has been broken ever since the meta dragons were introduced. They are indeed a great addition to the game and I enjoyed them from the start. I think there is an unnecessary reason for this. Let me explain why.

Last fall, when the eggs and relics were added, everyone went crazy. It's normal, it was a new way to spend gold... on something useful. You reach a point of the game where making gold isn't so hard and buying wearables can tire you. Some like to weak ugly ass strobe clothings and other ultra uber super white and stuff, but I feel like for a majority of the population, these items seem useless. They don't add anything to the game. It's just vanity in an environment where... vanity seem ridiculous to me.

Anyways, with the introduction of eggs and relics, most people wanted their own and started paying a toooooon of gold for it. That isn't an issue. The issue is that with time and decreased droprate, they became even more expensive.

Eggs prices have come down as their rarity increased because more and more people had them. But relics are so damn rare the prices are going up! I bought my first relic (bloody talons) for 2 mils about 6 months ago. Now they go for 5-6. That leaves the older player with very nice stuff they bought for a lower amount of gold while having more gold than the newer players who can't really afford the relics.

I think the relics droprate should go way up. What is it now, 20% maybe? That means that if there are an average of 15 people doing a champ, and a 20 % droprate, one would need what (I suck at maths)... around a 100 champs to have a chance to loot a relic... which could be a gold relic? (btw, when is the update on that one? it should be transformed into a control relic...)

Prices are too high. Rich, older player have theirs, newer players can't get their hands on it.

It's the same thing with taming SS. I GMed taming paying 125-135k per taming SS, now they're the double of that price. I could never have been abled to buy the scrolls at that price, why should the newer players have to? You don't even make more or less gold from looting them. Half the droprate, double the price, it's a break even for taming SS farmers but a hell for newer tamers.

The system right now gives a huge advantage to already rich, established players, while making the life of newer ones a living hell.

The meta talismans are making dexxers more efficient. Dexxers are usually for newer players... but they can't afford the relics either (hell, I can't afford them myself).

If we increased the droprate on relics, making them cheaper, the game would fine a new balance between newer and older players, making things more accessible. There's no way it's right for an old player to have been able to afford 110, 115 or 120 taming with a meta pet in a year while a new one would need, say, a year and a half. It's unfair.

Not only would it do that, but it could correct the market for other things, that aren't meta-anything related.

As a disclaimer, I have a stage 6 dragon with arguably the 3 best relics (for champs anyways, one could argue bloody talons is a better one, but it's a single target only). I would lose a ton of gold if you did what I ask. But I think the game would be better for everyone.

And maybe, maybe people would actually pay for the dragons EXP, which require a loooooooot of time, because they'd simply have more gold, having spent less on the eggs and relics.

What do you think?
 

EnviousGL

Grandmaster
I agree... This is endgame content but I have 11 mil sitting to buy relics and I've not seen any berserker relics in 2+ days for sale.
And if I buy what I need for taming, a qs/120 taming...Both of those are now nearly 10 million dollars.

Don't say 'go do more stuff'.

I have done numerous events, champions, invasions since Jan1 (numerous before too). I've placed usually on the front page, if not 2-3rd place each time. I've not received a single relic, powerscroll, or any other drop from any of these things.

And: I shouldn't have to join one of the huge flavor of the month guilds just so I have a better chance at getting a drop.

If IM having this much trouble, imagine someone whos only been here a month or two trying to attain anything to do with a talisman/metapet....
 

Lexington

Grandmaster
Hey everyone

Most might not agree with this, but I feel like it is fucking things up a lot here.

The market has been broken ever since the meta dragons were introduced. They are indeed a great addition to the game and I enjoyed them from the start. I think there is an unnecessary reason for this. Let me explain why.

Last fall, when the eggs and relics were added, everyone went crazy. It's normal, it was a new way to spend gold... on something useful. You reach a point of the game where making gold isn't so hard and buying wearables can tire you. Some like to weak ugly ass strobe clothings and other ultra uber super white and stuff, but I feel like for a majority of the population, these items seem useless. They don't add anything to the game. It's just vanity in an environment where... vanity seem ridiculous to me.

Anyways, with the introduction of eggs and relics, most people wanted their own and started paying a toooooon of gold for it. That isn't an issue. The issue is that with time and decreased droprate, they became even more expensive.

Eggs prices have come down as their rarity increased because more and more people had them. But relics are so damn rare the prices are going up! I bought my first relic (bloody talons) for 2 mils about 6 months ago. Now they go for 5-6. That leaves the older player with very nice stuff they bought for a lower amount of gold while having more gold than the newer players who can't really afford the relics.

I think the relics droprate should go way up. What is it now, 20% maybe? That means that if there are an average of 15 people doing a champ, and a 20 % droprate, one would need what (I suck at maths)... around a 100 champs to have a chance to loot a relic... which could be a gold relic? (btw, when is the update on that one? it should be transformed into a control relic...)

Prices are too high. Rich, older player have theirs, newer players can't get their hands on it.

It's the same thing with taming SS. I GMed taming paying 125-135k per taming SS, now they're the double of that price. I could never have been abled to buy the scrolls at that price, why should the newer players have to? You don't even make more or less gold from looting them. Half the droprate, double the price, it's a break even for taming SS farmers but a hell for newer tamers.

The system right now gives a huge advantage to already rich, established players, while making the life of newer ones a living hell.

The meta talismans are making dexxers more efficient. Dexxers are usually for newer players... but they can't afford the relics either (hell, I can't afford them myself).

If we increased the droprate on relics, making them cheaper, the game would fine a new balance between newer and older players, making things more accessible. There's no way it's right for an old player to have been able to afford 110, 115 or 120 taming with a meta pet in a year while a new one would need, say, a year and a half. It's unfair.

Not only would it do that, but it could correct the market for other things, that aren't meta-anything related.

As a disclaimer, I have a stage 6 dragon with arguably the 3 best relics (for champs anyways, one could argue bloody talons is a better one, but it's a single target only). I would lose a ton of gold if you did what I ask. But I think the game would be better for everyone.

And maybe, maybe people would actually pay for the dragons EXP, which require a loooooooot of time, because they'd simply have more gold, having spent less on the eggs and relics.

What do you think?


I didn't read all of your post but I don't have to, to know I agree %110. The rarity, and the spawn type / locations of relics (all types) and meta eggs have destroyed the UOF economy. Everything, including donation items, donation coins, PS, rares, etc; are virtually worthless. Adding new content to the game is cool and all but when you make it an elitist type item what's the long term affect on the server?
 

Swayze

Grandmaster
So you are saying there is an advantage to the already rich established players and that shouldn't be the case? I am confused. The ones that put in the hours and effort should not be rewarded?
 

bradley-

Grandmaster
I agree that the meta pets and relics have destroyed the market for damn near everything else but that is a double edged sword. People don't want to buy high-priced items for what they're worth because they're saving gold for relics and when someone does get something that is actually worth selling, they want people to hand them blank checks for it...

Increasing the relic drop rate may alleviate some of the problem but won't even come close to fixing it. It's all supply and demand. There are 1,000 tamers out there and every single one of them wants a 120 taming. Every single one of them wants a quicksilver relic. So, the guy/gal with the most gold is going to get it. When people stop paying 10m for a 120 taming, the price will go down.

Also, the older players don't have any better chances at a relic than anybody else does. If the relic has a 20% chance to drop at a champ and that 20% triggers, it is completely random as to who gets it. Champion score doesn't matter... Invasion score doesn't matter.. Portal score doesn't matter. My FIRST EVER RELIC (2 weeks ago) that I actually pulled from a champ spawn, I got with 487 champion score and since relics/metas have been out I've only ever gotten 2 relics (1 was a dexer relic) so I had to farm for the gold to buy what I wanted.

Meta pets are an end-game thing to progress. The devs have said that since day 1 of meta pets and relics. You can't expect a new player to start with a meta pet as soon as he creates his tamer.. This is end-game content.
 
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Liberty

Grandmaster
I didn't read all of your post but I don't have to, to know I agree %110. The rarity, and the spawn type / locations of relics (all types) and meta eggs have destroyed the UOF economy. Everything, including donation items, donation coins, PS, rares, etc; are virtually worthless. Adding new content to the game is cool and all but when you make it an elitist type item what's the long term affect on the server?
The things you speak of are exactly what happened to in game rares when donations went in. With the inclusion of new deco and new and rare clothes it ruins the value for everything else in game that is similar(rares, bod clothing etc). There is no way to stop it. In a sandbox economy the people create the highs and lows.
 

EnviousGL

Grandmaster
Paying a couple mil for a relic is reasonable, not being able to even find one to buy one isn't cool...Unless I wanna spend 10mil.
 

EnviousGL

Grandmaster
I agree that the meta pets and relics have destroyed the market for damn near everything else but that is a double edged sword. People don't want to buy high-priced items for what they're worth because they're saving gold for relics and when someone does get something that is actually worth selling, they want people to hand them blank checks for it...

Increasing the relic drop rate may alleviate some of the problem but won't even come close to fixing it. It's all supply and demand. There are 1,000 tamers out there and every single one of them wants a 120 taming. Every single one of them wants a quicksilver relic. So, the guy/gal with the most gold is going to get it. When people stop paying 10m for a 120 taming, the price will go down.

Also, the older players don't have any better chances at a relic than anybody else does. If the relic has a 20% chance to drop at a champ and that 20% triggers, it is completely random as to who gets it. Champion score doesn't matter... Invasion score doesn't matter.. Portal score doesn't matter. My FIRST EVER RELIC (2 weeks ago) that I actually pulled from a champ spawn, I got with 487 champion score and since relics/metas have been out I've only ever gotten 2 relics (1 was a dexer relic) so I had to farm for the gold to buy what I wanted.

Meta pets are an end-game thing to progress. The devs have said that since day 1 of meta pets and relics. You can't expect a new player to start with a meta pet as soon as he creates his tamer.. This is end-game content.

Then why do the same handful of players keep getting the good uber drops?
 

LSDjay

Grandmaster
i dont agree leave it as it is.
It makes you wanna play the game, hoping for a good ps or a relic.

Joined this shard 5 months ago and doing fine, tamed my way to 95 and bought / huntend taming ss till 115.
Have myself a little stealth/archer for doing champs, to get ps, and 2 weeks ago even a molten relic dropped in my bag.
At that time i had the choice of going for a meta dragon, i bought the egg a few days later.
After a few days of thinking about it i decided i dont need a meta pet, as it takes to much time lvling it up, and i prolly do just as good on my stealth/archer at champs.
Been nr1 many times and mostly in top3 or 5, if im there from the start.

So i decided to sell the egg and the relic, and now have a few mill on my bank.
I forgot all the hard work of buying ss.

In every game u have players that are considerably more richer then others, who can buy more then others, its a multiplayer game.
Would be strange if things were made easier for new players.

Just maybe and pops right into my head now , that when u receive a relic, it just says relic and you can choose from a menu wich you need/want.
I guess that woul drop prices for at least relics a bit.
 

Messremb

Grandmaster
Then why do the same handful of players keep getting the good uber drops?
This is misleading, power gamers and huge guilds will always seem to get more, but its either that they are just doing that many more spawns or are selling for the guild then split the profit, or both!
 

EnviousGL

Grandmaster
This is misleading, power gamers and huge guilds will always seem to get more, but its either that they are just doing that many more spawns or are selling for the guild then split the profit, or both!

These same players usually get the invasion/champ loots too, not just private RDAs.
 

Messremb

Grandmaster
These same players usually get the invasion/champ loots too, not just private RDAs.
It seems that way but it isn't.

I would like to see a small increase in drop rate maybe 33% or something, just to adjust for the number of meta tamers around, but I don't think that will solve the price issue.

Also it would be cool if since there is an event score egg there was an event score relic! Maybe a relic to increase control? Just a thought.
 

Lexington

Grandmaster
So you are saying there is an advantage to the already rich established players and that shouldn't be the case? I am confused. The ones that put in the hours and effort should not be rewarded?

You're not confused. You're just making conversation on the topic, I can sense this :)

Relics already have an effort / reward built in... It's the leveling. :) The issue is what the low spawn rate / locations of these items have done to the value of everything else.
 

EnviousGL

Grandmaster
On a side note: If you want a gold sink...Put relics on gold sink vendor. Otherwise relics/ps act as a gold funnel, not a sink.
 

VFingerDiscount

Grandmaster
I personally just stopped bothering with meta pet after countless champs and rdas where just our guild was there and no one gets a single drop or scroll above 115 fishing, even at Harrowers.

Sat with gold waiting for a relic to come on market, weeks went by, nothing available. Or someone wants 6 million for a nox... When you're playing 'end game' and you literally can't even buy or achieve a part of that without 10 hours a day of play you just get bored and lose the feeling of satisfaction.

I dumped ally pet crap and am working a mage tali just to have something to do.

Some people can save for months and feel okay with dropping double value on something but this is a game I work enough IRL to not want to feel like I'm at work on a video game.
 

EnviousGL

Grandmaster
It seems like the mage talisman relics are either less desirable or are more common, I feel like I always see them for sale.
 

Lexington

Grandmaster
I agree that the meta pets and relics have destroyed the market for damn near everything else but that is a double edged sword. People don't want to buy high-priced items for what they're worth because they're saving gold for relics and when someone does get something that is actually worth selling, they want people to hand them blank checks for it...

Increasing the relic drop rate may alleviate some of the problem but won't even come close to fixing it. It's all supply and demand. There are 1,000 tamers out there and every single one of them wants a 120 taming. Every single one of them wants a quicksilver relic. So, the guy/gal with the most gold is going to get it. When people stop paying 10m for a 120 taming, the price will go down.

Also, the older players don't have any better chances at a relic than anybody else does. If the relic has a 20% chance to drop at a champ and that 20% triggers, it is completely random as to who gets it. Champion score doesn't matter... Invasion score doesn't matter.. Portal score doesn't matter. My FIRST EVER RELIC (2 weeks ago) that I actually pulled from a champ spawn, I got with 487 champion score and since relics/metas have been out I've only ever gotten 2 relics (1 was a dexer relic) so I had to farm for the gold to buy what I wanted.

Meta pets are an end-game thing to progress. The devs have said that since day 1 of meta pets and relics. You can't expect a new player to start with a meta pet as soon as he creates his tamer.. This is end-game content.


I agree Bradely... but the end game part of these should be the time it takes to level them to the top... not the bank busting prices that people are forced to pay due to the low supply. Besides, these are only this weeks end game item. With the pace that new content is being added, meta stuff will be old soon, just like the others.
Don't get me wrong I like the new metas, and the new dungeon fountains content.... Good job Bradley but damn, I quit WOW because the game changed every other week.

To be honest, if my connection was a bit better I'd quit all this Trammel shit and get back to what I loved about UO... Me and my bud running our twin PKS!!
 
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yourdaddy

Grandmaster
So you are saying there is an advantage to the already rich established players and that shouldn't be the case? I am confused. The ones that put in the hours and effort should not be rewarded?

No. I'm saying the advantage is unbalanced. What took a year a while ago takes 2 now.

Increasing the relic drop rate may alleviate some of the problem but won't even come close to fixing it. It's all supply and demand. There are 1,000 tamers out there and every single one of them wants a 120 taming. Every single one of them wants a quicksilver relic. So, the guy/gal with the most gold is going to get it. When people stop paying 10m for a 120 taming, the price will go down.

Also, the older players don't have any better chances at a relic than anybody else does. If the relic has a 20% chance to drop at a champ and that 20% triggers, it is completely random as to who gets it.

More player on UOF means for an even droprate you have more rarity. Not saying it shouldn't be end game. I'm saying it's WAY too much engage.
 
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