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Discussion in 'Ultima Online Forever: Naval Combat' started by Bruno D, Dec 30, 2015.
Going off it's not about the money it's about the pvp why not make anything other than galleons immune to boat pvp. If you don't care about money and just want boat pvp passing up that fishing boat shouldn't matter to you as your looking for a fight. You can't fight 10 guns with no guns. Maybe more ppl would be interested in boat pvp if they weren't wasting 45 mins dealing with their fisherman being griefed by somone "looking for naval combat".
Nobody's going to invest the kinda money and time it takes to get into a new style of pvp just to lose it all to a veteran at the style of combat had I payed attention and known you don't lose your boat I woulda made a gallon ages ago. I've never put a boat in the 4 yrs I been on uof cause I wasn't gonna lose boats to ppl that already know what to do and have their boats maxed out. You want more ppl on the water you need the risk vs reward to be less than it is not more. You can't have the risk vs reward at a higher level than the common interest in said topic.
i actually haven't pirated at all yet. i was just looking into it because i'm interested, and noticed this thread where someone pointed out an issue. people dont have loads of loot on board which sort of defeats the purpose of pirating. so i was just thinking of ways to make pirating worth spending a bunch of gold on a nice ship.
if people are just banking anything of value instantly, i think that should be fixed. a lonely fisherman should have to fear giant pirate ships. like i said, it would force fishermen to work together and maybe form guilds rather than playing by themselves. and it would also give pirates more purpose. I would be pretty annoyed if i got a big pirate ship only to find out that i can sink ships, not get any loot, and they still have their boat as well.
i don't think people should lose their boats when they get sunk, however when i work hard to get a big boat i would like if it helped me get some loot. Why is anyone going to spend gold on these boats when the likelihood of getting any decent loot is slim to none?
i think something should be put into place so that tons of loot can't be transported through a single gate into safety.
The problem is possibly pirate play went from being a super cheap form of pvp to a extremely expensive form too fast. You gotta get ppl hooked before the loot can be there. You can't go from 250k ships to 3 mil ships cause ppl be like eff that noise I'm not even gonna try because they are spending everything on talismans and meta pets already. So right now you either must wait till the populace gets to the point that a few on this server have achieved where money means nothing. Or you need to drop the bar to gain more interest from the ppl who can't afford it and then boat stealing wouldn't be such a insane thought.
And we can let tamers recall into dungeons but not out. make them have to run out with all there loot too. Would make being a PK more worthwhile and make those dang tamers have to work in groups if they want their paydays
hahahahah I have a tamer and fisher. I didnt pay 3 mil i bought a small boat and fished up most of the ingredients for my galleon. Its all possible
My suggestion is jump in and get your feet wet. The further you wade in the more you'll see there already exists cooperatives of both pirates and fishermen. Scoring big paydays is not that uncommon, even routinely banking mib loot you'll score 40k plus in a hit just from some poor fish men killing his pair of deep eles while holding an ancient treasure chest.
Check out some of the other threads in this section, Dread pirate Brandon Van Raily has screenshots with more treasure chests open than can fit on a screen.
As for galleons vs classic ships and the pvp competitive entry level, UOF has kept this extremely balanced imo. Classic ships still consistently outclass galleons with experienced captains behind the helm, and are the favoured weapon on long term Pirateers.
Good luck in your endevours
Large dragon boats are what allowed 2-3 privateers to take and own the oceans from the server with minimal competition over six months, accumulating in the effective killing of unlicensed activity at sea in the months of March and April.
Galleons are not best in class by default, and to make them work you need a properly sized and trained crew.
I'm on the water almost everyday and I agree, dragons are everywhere, whether a pirate or a fisher. I use my small dragon more than any of my other ships when doing MIBs or fishing serpents and my level 10 large for almost everything else. Only time my tokuno ever really hits the water is at WPs where I set it up and throw my line in because I can't move and it has big cannons and a big deck for my deckhands.
Also the Wendy's pretzel burger...
I wasn't saying it not possible I'm saying you won't have a wide interest in a new style of anything right away when the buy in is in the millions to even start and hav a chance. That's why losing your boats to ransom won't work it would kill the little water activity there might be.
The problem (and one of the reasons we eventually quit, second only to no one out there to fight back) is that there's no ebb-and-flow at sea. Sure you can take someone's loot and get a good haul, but most folks just hit their panic button, and they have 3 characters to haul their loot off while their two other alts soak up the damage. Granted, it wasn't all that successful against us, but it's more the idea behind it than the execution: people didn't care about their ships.
I say this because people would leave their ships out there (and still do), and let them go IDOC. They would end up back in their bank. These are folks who don't know that they'd get their ship back (meaning they just lost 35-50K or more) from IDOC, and they still do it - again, because they don't care. So I don't agree that people won't buy into ransoming because it might cost them a ship; they already let their vessels decay as it is, not maintaining it at all. And since there's no risk to losing a ship, they don't invest in upgrades for the ship (either leveling or add-ons), which makes the whole point of the system moot for non-PvPers at sea (the bulk being afk fishermen).
In short, people either love the "rich man's PvP" of naval combat and the dangers and adventure of seafaring (and the appropriate risk vs reward that comes with it) or they like the knuckle-dragging bottom-feeding gameplay of freeshard sync dumping over leather suits and regs. Including more things like ship ransoms won't deter those players who aren't already interested in that next level of PvP.
Here's my thing, in response, and I'm new to it. I have plenty of ships. If I go out fishing mibs, I'm taking a ship out, if someone try's, I see them coming and recall out. But on the other side of it, I go out on another one, loaded down with upgrades looking for pvp. Pass fishermen all day long. I'm either hitting mibs or looking for pvp. That's just me and my .02. I set up completely different for both occasions. Now a wp is like heading to a champ. Hoping for loot expecting a fight. It is what it is.
@sshhaawwnn That's sorta' the problem, though. UOF suffers (since 2013) with an identity issue: it doesn't know if it wants to be a Felucca/sandbox shard or a Trammel/theme park shard.
The point is that when you leave town (and arguably, not even then - rather when you log in) you are not safe; you can set up for killing, farming, harvesting or a combination at the cost of inefficiency and/or higher risk. That's what Felucca's all about. Going from "I'm farming MiBs AFK while bingeing House of Cards" to "I'm decking out my gunship to pew folks in the head" is allowed, yes, but it drastically changes the metagame. In the first example, you're risking literally nothing, while in the second you risk whatever you bring to the fight (and in my experience, naval combat is about going hard or not going at all - numbers don't win the day at sea, quality accounts for a lot more).
The issue is that the money making option (PvM) risks nothing, and the naval combat option (PvP) risks whatever combatants are willing to bring (which is usually some translocation powder and EV scrolls lol). The one constant that both mindsets have to contend with is the ship; whether you want to fight or not, the ship is the critical factor here. Or, at least, it should be; since it doesn't degrade or risk being stolen/ransomed (like a meta, for example) it's almost more of a pain in the ass when the pirates don't sink the ship, keeping it at sea and not returning it to your bank (which is why we started blockading folks to success).
This is why ransoming and suggestions of ship degradation when sunk (to the point that they could even be lost or require a gold sink to "recover") has been brought up multiple times in the past, back when I first played, before I returned, after I returned, and, judging by this thread's necromancy, after I left. You go out to sea, get efficient at making money on MiBbing, and boom, you're done and laden with gold. Like you said, you see someone coming, you take your t-map-sized chests on your barren alts, recall home and lol. Boat stays out there and that's the end of it; grab another or go sort your booty while it teleports to your bank as a ship model, fresh and ready to go.
And also like you said, you have multiple boats, so you just deploy another ship and you're off. That level one dinghy won't ever degrade, it won't ever be lost (even if you forget about it and it IDOCs, it'll just pop up in your bank), and dedicated pirates are practically wasting cannonballs sinking it (unless they blockade it, like I mentioned before). Again, you're not risking anything for the money.
And WPs as champs? Really? WPs are lame. They were lame in '14, they were lame in '16 and in '17 (and judging by the fact they didn't change in '15, I'd wager then, too). Luckily they added the Sea Champ back in, but they still screwed that up by making it a tamer funnel more than an actual bay or arena for ships to navigate and fight spawn and each other in.
TL;DR: Some folks want organic interactions and consequences at sea involving naval combat, and an easy way to achieve that is with natural ebb and flow mechanics inherent in land PKing/combat in traditional UO, such as meaningful risk v. reward, as well as a focus on the ship being an important factor in risk management and focal to "victory conditions".
I get all that, it all makes plenty of sense to me. I guess I'm just different. I have a tamer, a meta, that is where I make my gold mainly. I started doing mibs for a change of pace. But, like you said, if you are going out for pvp, you are going out loaded. So why would I sit there and try to fight solo, a Galleon loaded down with people, with evs ready to roll? I truly see both sides of it. I do it for fun. Also, the WPs as champs, bad analogy, more what i meant was, expect pvp at a wp, wp's are about your best chance at pvp (as of now). I could sail around all day looking for a fisher to kill, or another Galleon loaded down with people, but honestly, even a lot of beer cannot fix that level of boredom. Maybe im a special case and shouldnt have chimed in at all. Not only am I new to the sea life, its more a good time to me than a lifestyle.
put something good for a meta on the sea