Bobby123
Grandmaster
Before I even even make any comments in this thread , can i kindly who @Winstonian characters are ?
He seems like to know alot about UOF
He seems like to know alot about UOF
A Possible Solution to The Problem of PvP
- Thread starter Winstonian
- Start date
Winstonian
Grandmaster
I've had a bunch over the years. Carvel, Honest Injun, Junkmonkey, Manchild, others I've that have since been deleted. I stopped PvPing here a while back due to the mechanics and now do PvM nonsense between long breaks. I constantly lurk the forum and check in to see how the PvP (hasn't) evolved. I have a family, so I prefer casual play, and there's really no place in PvP here for that type of player. Glutt tried to get me in EQMS, but I really have no interest in the one spell gank squads.Before I even even make any comments in this thread , can i kindly who @Winstonian characters are ?
He seems like to know alot about UOF
I'll always love UO, and UOF is the best shard out there. I just can't believe PvP has come to this.
Lexington
Grandmaster
Consensual PVP is not likely ever going to be a good fit for the casual player. It caters organized groups. You might need to look at flagging, solo pking, griefing or hanging out in grey only / cut areas to incite the PVP to scratch your itch?
Winstonian
Grandmaster
Isn't that a shame? This is UO. UO was always a place where both casual players and organized groups had a place in PvP. Being that way is not only great for the player base, but also the growth of the server.
As it stands, I'm not desperate for PvP on UO. I have other games that I can choose to play for that purpose. I just love quite a few aspects of UOF, and I can't help but think how this place would thrive if one of its main gameplay options catered to all players, and not just the select few.
That was the purpose of this thread, though. Casual PvP isn't a good fit for the casual player right now, but it doesn't have to be that way. If players are given an incentive to participate, they absolutely will.
Lexington
Grandmaster
I'd love to see a place for the casual player in consensual PVP but UOF isn't the same as UO. The majority of its PVP community are veteran players who have honed their skills, scripts and clients over the past 20 years. You'll never be able to compete with that as a casual.
It won't ever make a difference what the dev changes either… mechanics etc. because they can't change the games social freedom. Try not to get discouraged. I've accepted the fact UOF isn’t the UO I remember and enjoy playing the game for what it is! If you're lucky you'll find a group that somewhat tolerates your skill level and casual play as I did.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
I agree with most of this, but I'll say this: I think there's still room for the casual player in PvP on UOF. It, like proven in many other games, all hinges on incentive.
An example: FIFA 18. I'm equally as casual in FIFA as I am on UOF. I stand no chance to compete against the top-tier players, and the majority of "competitive" players use the same players and same schemes. Yet, I'll still play. I'll even try my hand at the Weekend League (40 games from Friday-Sunday, wins determine the reward, extremely competitive). Why? Because the incentive for competing makes the time spent worth it. Even if I lose half of those 40 games, the rewards are staggering: plenty of coins, packs, and special players each month. I won't win, but the rewards validate the time spent.
Tons of games pull this off. Even WoW managed to get casual PvE characters into PvP battlegrounds by significantly increasing the incentive for doing so. It's a pretty straight-forward business model: provide an incentive to participate and players will participate.
It would also provide layered benefits. Once casual players decide that the incentive makes PvP worth it, casual players will come across other casual players with regularity. You'll then see groups of casual players forming to try and take down the organized groups, as used to happen back in the day (and still - scarcely - happens here in blue vs red).
Tl;dr: create an incentive worth playing for and casual players will - again - have a place in consensual PvP on UOF.
Lexington
Grandmaster
If you're looking for something to compare with WOW's battle grounds, UOF has its capture the flag. It was a league at one time. They have duelling pit tournaments. SIR even hosts, or did host, Friday night fights.
IMO none of these have been hugely successful and it's not because of the events themselves... it's because of the # of players active at any one time that are into these types of events.
If its spontaneous group fighting you're looking for (militia) you're going to have to join up with a group unless you're ok with dying A LOT... just ask @eppy.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
Exactly! That's exactly it: those events won't work without more players on the shard. Something like militias could absolutely pull casual players into structured PvP, despite the constant dying, so long as their time spent led to the possibility of a reward.If you're looking for something to compare with WOW's battle grounds, UOF has its capture the flag. It was a league at one time. They have duelling pit tournaments. SIR even hosts, or did host, Friday night fights.
IMO none of these have been hugely successful and it's not because of the events themselves... it's because of the # of players active at any one time that are into these types of events.
If its spontaneous group fighting you're looking for (militia) you're going to have to join up with a group unless you're ok with dying A LOT... just ask @eppy.
Example: remove all drops/rewards from champ spawns. How many players would do champ spawns then? Very few. Right now, militias is to PvP as reward-less champ spawns would be to PvM. It's really quite simple: add rewards, and the players will follow.
Lexington
Grandmaster
Good luck with your quest... I hope you're successful and I hope its good for the shard. In the future make sure you tag eppy and Swayze with your ideas. Its those two guys you have to convince.
Lexington
Grandmaster
Winstonian
Grandmaster
Swayze
Grandmaster
We have rewards and am always adding more. What kind of rewards were you thinking of?
Winstonian
Grandmaster
I sincerely appreciate the response.
When it comes to UOF, I think most can agree that the rewards of significance to players are relics, power scrolls, skill scrolls, fancy clothes and gold. Other content-related rewards have their place, of course, but won't be enough to pull casual players into PvP.
Giving players a chance to earn those high-end rewards in a system that doesn't necessarily put an emphasis on metrics that benefit group play is the key. (I provided an example, but the players could likely suggest another.) If the PvM-minded player knew that there was a chance to earn the desired PvM items by PvPing on occasion, I feel that many of them would.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
To add: maybe the desire is to allow militias to continue to evolve in the way that they were intended, and that's completely understandable. Implementing this type of system in a more casual setting (O/C, for example) would give casual players an outlet to PvP.
Swayze
Grandmaster
Just so I fully understand.
You want pvp to result in PVM rewards such as relics, powerscrolls, skill scrolls, fancy clothes and gold?
You want pvp to result in PVM rewards such as relics, powerscrolls, skill scrolls, fancy clothes and gold?
Lexington
Grandmaster
Not to sound syndical Swayze but that's what you guys did with factions, and what you are doing with one of the militia capture points now. Champ spawn scores, extra PS's etc...
Lexington
Grandmaster
^ cynical
Winstonian
Grandmaster
In short: yeah. It's my belief that, if the desired items on UOF were actually obtainable in a casual PvP system that didn't favor either playstyle (solo or group), players who usually avoid PvP would be far more inclined to participate.
The system is the key element. If it's kills, the big groups win, and casual players won't participate. Same with capturing points. If it's something that provides an indicator of overall participation, and that doesn't necessarily favor groups, I feel that PvP here would thrive. And I think that's a great thing for UOF.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
(Follow-up: it doesn't have to be PvM items. PvM items just so happen to be the items with the most value, hence the most desired. And what better way to get predominantly PvM players involved?)
Lexington
Grandmaster
I might add that the defense talisman is still likely used by more PVPers than not... so maybe that could be some sort of PVP reward? Defense relic XP gains?