Malkraven
Grandmaster
Play a archer then noone force u to play a tamer or use a meta
Question, will pet statloss be looked at.....?
- Thread starter Lexington
- Start date
Messremb
Grandmaster
I only use my tamer for T-maps these days. my stealth archer with 120 mining has been top 10 at every event I have been to. If I get to a champ before level 3 im always top 10 and if im there from the beginning top 5-1. I usually use a GM bow and 800 arrows, making my total risk about 2k. invasions seem to be the only place tamers have a chance at a better score than my archer. yet my tamer risks way more than my archer. people who think tamers are so great need to try a stealth archer or provo archer for PVM. I also make nearly as much GPH on my provo archer as I do on my tamer.
poogoblin
Master
And if there is nothing to provoke what do you do then? If I was a tamer I'd just sit back while my meta tanked AND DPS'd and I had to all of sit around and heal it with 'aids. Dexxers currently are great PVEr's in a group, and only if they are archers really. Tamers are excellent soloers or in groups. It's goofy this thread even exists.
Bunnky
Grandmaster
Yea, i do primarily play my archer over my tamer @Malkraven. I play my tamer, but very rarely. It's not the 1% loss/pet skill gain, but simply because playing an archer is infinitively easier than managing pets.
@Bromista I can't put my finger on it myself. In fact, I'm surprised anyone can come close to a meta, let alone beat them. It just doesn't make sense: How can 140 magery DRAGON with all sorts of unique skills not pull top damage every single fight? I don't know, but it does happen often, and in my experiences, almost always. There's a few things I can think of why I and other provo archers can achieve this.
1. RNG is a big factor. I try to circumvent this by ALWAYS attacking something. I know my swing timer well, and try hard to always be attacking, no matter what unless I'm dieing.
2. My build. I don't have healing, and I picked up anatomy for that tiny increase in damage. Albeit tiny, I picked it up for maximum damage possible. I'm GM Archery/Tactic/Anatomy/Hiding/Music/Provo 64.1 Magery/ 35.9 Meditation. I don't use strength pots, but I do use bless for long singular fights.
3. Length of time put in. I usually can't achieve #1 if I'm not there from the beginning, or first 10 minutes. It's just hard to make up the points. I find that the first few levels of a champ is where a big chunk of my points come in. I always target what I know is weak against my slayer (imps over mongbats for example), and I just use target closest non-innocent, then attack last. I use middle mouse button for target, shift + MMB for attack last.
4. Provo doesn't even come into play until the last 2 or so stages, and when that happens, I continously provoke, even things I know are already provoked. I try to keep 3 groups of 2 fighting at once, at all times. If someone provokes mobs you already had provoked, this overrides yours, and gives the other player points, leaving you with none, so I just provo provo provo.
By the time the boss comes, I just focus on him, or focus on provoking onto him. Honestly, by the time it's boss time, I can usually not even fight him because I've accumulated enough points. I have a good idea what is high points per champ, and I can make good estimates as to how I'm doing based on what wave the champ fight is on.
Don't get me wrong, I've been beaten by twice the amount of points by tamers with metas, but it's rare. Maybe it's my play time, or just bad groups, but like I said, I surprise myself.
@Bromista I can't put my finger on it myself. In fact, I'm surprised anyone can come close to a meta, let alone beat them. It just doesn't make sense: How can 140 magery DRAGON with all sorts of unique skills not pull top damage every single fight? I don't know, but it does happen often, and in my experiences, almost always. There's a few things I can think of why I and other provo archers can achieve this.
1. RNG is a big factor. I try to circumvent this by ALWAYS attacking something. I know my swing timer well, and try hard to always be attacking, no matter what unless I'm dieing.
2. My build. I don't have healing, and I picked up anatomy for that tiny increase in damage. Albeit tiny, I picked it up for maximum damage possible. I'm GM Archery/Tactic/Anatomy/Hiding/Music/Provo 64.1 Magery/ 35.9 Meditation. I don't use strength pots, but I do use bless for long singular fights.
3. Length of time put in. I usually can't achieve #1 if I'm not there from the beginning, or first 10 minutes. It's just hard to make up the points. I find that the first few levels of a champ is where a big chunk of my points come in. I always target what I know is weak against my slayer (imps over mongbats for example), and I just use target closest non-innocent, then attack last. I use middle mouse button for target, shift + MMB for attack last.
4. Provo doesn't even come into play until the last 2 or so stages, and when that happens, I continously provoke, even things I know are already provoked. I try to keep 3 groups of 2 fighting at once, at all times. If someone provokes mobs you already had provoked, this overrides yours, and gives the other player points, leaving you with none, so I just provo provo provo.
By the time the boss comes, I just focus on him, or focus on provoking onto him. Honestly, by the time it's boss time, I can usually not even fight him because I've accumulated enough points. I have a good idea what is high points per champ, and I can make good estimates as to how I'm doing based on what wave the champ fight is on.
Don't get me wrong, I've been beaten by twice the amount of points by tamers with metas, but it's rare. Maybe it's my play time, or just bad groups, but like I said, I surprise myself.
Malkraven
Grandmaster
i dont see how a archer is out dpsing a lvl 7 meta qith quicksilver tbh.
Mayb im wrong
Mayb im wrong
poogoblin
Master
You're not, it's just people trying to justify this.
Example: If there is a 3/4 moon, during a leap year, and it is RDA#3 on the 4th stage and there are multiple mobs an Archer out DPS's me for 2 minutes. PLS FIX!
Bromista
Grandmaster
I have played every type of PvM template there is, but nothing satisfies like my provo tamer with a meta.
I am thinking about switching up my archer tamer a little bit. Currently he's 115 Lore, 110 Taming, GM Archery Tactics Anat + Magery, 95 Healing. He uses a beetle and WW. I never had vet because I don't use him unless I use my provo tamer as well. Together they are stupid good at killing things. It's almost like cheating. I have taken two spots out of the top 10 in many a champ spawn and invasion. Events I never get to participate in it seems (I'm convinced that staff plans them for times that I can't be there...lol
)
I think I'm going to put vet on the archer tamer though. Drop anat/healing for vet/med so that he can be self sufficient...really mostly for RDAs than anything. Would be nice for events. Not sure what I'm gonna do yet.
I really like dual boxing for just extreme disgusting DPS but it's kind of hard to manage when the shit gets thick.
I am thinking about switching up my archer tamer a little bit. Currently he's 115 Lore, 110 Taming, GM Archery Tactics Anat + Magery, 95 Healing. He uses a beetle and WW. I never had vet because I don't use him unless I use my provo tamer as well. Together they are stupid good at killing things. It's almost like cheating. I have taken two spots out of the top 10 in many a champ spawn and invasion. Events I never get to participate in it seems (I'm convinced that staff plans them for times that I can't be there...lol
)I think I'm going to put vet on the archer tamer though. Drop anat/healing for vet/med so that he can be self sufficient...really mostly for RDAs than anything. Would be nice for events. Not sure what I'm gonna do yet.
I really like dual boxing for just extreme disgusting DPS but it's kind of hard to manage when the shit gets thick.
The speed at which champion spawns have been done lately favors archers over meta tamers. The longer a spawn stays at tier 1 the better it will be for meta Tamers. Between tier 2-3 an archer will destroy a Tamer in points. A spawn with 5-10 people I might lose to a tamer. 10+ people will go too fast and I will win every time on my archer. Invasions use to be the same as champion spawns. Now invasions seem to have multiple slayer types favoring tamers.
As far as normal hunting goes, it's easier on a tamer cause it's set and forget. But an archer with a slayer bow will kill any paragon faster than a meta/ww.
As far as normal hunting goes, it's easier on a tamer cause it's set and forget. But an archer with a slayer bow will kill any paragon faster than a meta/ww.
Bromista
Grandmaster
You are right about invasions favoring tamers by having multiple slayer types. Can't argue with that.
I don't see what you are saying about champ spawns and paragons though. Spawn management (especially at higher levels) is made 150x easier when you have pets to tank, so you can take your time and plan your provos out instead of omgwtfbbqRUN when you don't have pets to tank. Without another tamers pets to tank your archer is going to be doing a lot of "bad" provokes just to take aggro off of you. Not all provocations are created equal and sometimes you just have to hit the panic button....more often with a provo archer than a provo tamer I promise you that.
And paragons...well...most of the time you have stuff to provo onto but obviously a solo spawn you are fucked. Even when there's multiple targets I'll take my tamer any day.
I don't see what you are saying about champ spawns and paragons though. Spawn management (especially at higher levels) is made 150x easier when you have pets to tank, so you can take your time and plan your provos out instead of omgwtfbbqRUN when you don't have pets to tank. Without another tamers pets to tank your archer is going to be doing a lot of "bad" provokes just to take aggro off of you. Not all provocations are created equal and sometimes you just have to hit the panic button....more often with a provo archer than a provo tamer I promise you that.
And paragons...well...most of the time you have stuff to provo onto but obviously a solo spawn you are fucked. Even when there's multiple targets I'll take my tamer any day.
I was talking output not ease. It easier to kill paragons on a Tamer, archery will take planning kiting possible deaths. That wasn't the point I was trying to make. Sheer output stand still over a lengthy amount of time an archer with a slayer will win. There is still 100% need for metas as tanks or any pet for that matter. However, that was not the point of my earlier posts.
Also, fix SS for pets please. Let us give less than 1.0 near cap!
Also, fix SS for pets please. Let us give less than 1.0 near cap!
Bromista
Grandmaster
Ah, but that's half the battle lol.
Good to see that in the end tamers prevail over all.
The juice is worth the squeeze!
Good to see that in the end tamers prevail over all.
The juice is worth the squeeze!
The trick is to find a meta tamer follow him around on your archer. Making your life easier with pets and his life harder because less mobs for his meta to AOE Win/Win. About the provo aspect of archery build im thinking about dropping it and going full Magery/Med to toss EV's. There is so much provoking going on now at stage 4 its not worth the 200 points a lot of times.
Lets get to the real point here.
120 taming
110 Lore
100 Magery
90 Med
100 Vet
100 Archery
100 Tactics
Slayer bow and meta pets. Provo is good for farming and darn near worthless at todays champs. Easily the best build for champs
Win/Win. About the provo aspect of archery build im thinking about dropping it and going full Magery/Med to toss EV's. There is so much provoking going on now at stage 4 its not worth the 200 points a lot of times.Lets get to the real point here.
120 taming
110 Lore
100 Magery
90 Med
100 Vet
100 Archery
100 Tactics
Slayer bow and meta pets. Provo is good for farming and darn near worthless at todays champs. Easily the best build for champs