New hit chance mechanics for PvP - Capped # of hits or misses

[wreckognize]

Make mages miss same rate as dexers can. Nothing like shooting 5 e bolts and missing

this

pretty much says it all right here. You can cast ebolt at GM magery with 100% success. Ebolt does as much damage as an arrow against GM resist, even more compared to shooting an arrow at an armored target. The cast time is similar also to the reload time to shoot an arrow.

I mean really, not being able to hit or miss 6-9 times in a row just seems like better PvP to me, and it happens all the time, so let's be constructive and try to find a solution.

This is PvP only. PvM has already had the arms lore update, which I'm sure was carefully constructed to balance out champs/rdas/invasion scores so it's best not to touch that stuff.

 

[Trojandrew]

The cast time is similar also to the reload time to shoot an arrow.

the only thing against that argument is this, since you can run while reloading, you cant run while casting a spell., but i do agree with your point overall

 

[Wizx13]

Archers back in the good ole days where feared by pks. We always had 2 in the group when we was out and was very effective in a spartan style huddle while pks where coming in and attempting to drop us. I have always played a archer in UO/UOF and its truely sad that they are not any line of defense here at all. If the miss rate in pvp was better then we would have our line of defense against zergs. Almost every movie you see where a zerg type battle takes place you have archers raining down hell from above

 

[Wizx13]

the only thing against that argument is this, since you can run while reloading, you cant run while casting a spell., but i do agree with your point overall

But you can throw unlimited explo pots while running....Mounted running arrow fire with 50% damage reduction would put this in balance.

 

[Malkraven]

wow really dexxers are pretty OP 1v1 1v2 already and the reason mages dont miss spells is they are using a resource (mana) warriors have no resource to worry about and just swing swing swing you really want them hitting 80% of the time?

Before you say Stamina we all deal with stamina loss and you have total refrsh pots


No pls NO!
its perfectly fine as it is

 

[Trojandrew]

But you can throw unlimited explo pots while running....Mounted running arrow fire with 50% damage reduction would put this in balance.

you can also shoot, unequep throw 2 pots, equip, shoot, rinse repeat all while running

 

[Winstonian]

2h LJ Character will nearly always beat a 1h dexxor in straight up hit-for-hit competitions. This has been proven in the RNG tourneys that the event masters put on from time to time. A 2h macer will also beat most 1h dexxors too due to burst damage - although they will die to the 2h LJ.

If we're adding a skill (LJ), lets add alchemy to the 1h dexer template.

This doesn't just concern dexer vs dexer, though. It's the mage vs dexer relationship. It's an area where 1h dexers have a huge advantage, and where misses by the 2h dexer are far more devastating.

 

[wreckognize]

the only thing against that argument is this, since you can run while reloading, you cant run while casting a spell., but i do agree with your point overall

you don't have to stop to release an ebolt as you do an arrow.

 

[Trojandrew]

you don't have to stop to release an ebolt as you do an arrow.

you also dont have to wait 2 seconds motionless to charge an arrow.

im not disagreeing with the statement that there are advantages and disadvantages to each, and that in a pvp setting there could be more balance. im just pointing out that stopping for a split second to release an arrow, takes longer than stopping for a few seconds to charge a spell. and both can perform other actions while on the run

 

[halygon]

If we're adding a skill (LJ), lets add alchemy to the 1h dexer template.

This doesn't just concern dexer vs dexer, though. It's the mage vs dexer relationship. It's an area where 1h dexers have a huge advantage, and where misses by the 2h dexer are far more devastating.

I still think that the 1h damage over time is superior to 2h damage over time, and the hit frequency of a fast weapon is huge. Missing one swing with a slow 2 handed weapon is nearly certain death against a mage.

I was referring to the 1h damage over time is superior to 2h damage over time - regardless if LJ is included or not. RNG says its not.

As far as missing a swing vs a mage. It is by no means certain death. 2H weapons (well the good ones) do big chunks of damage whether consistently (LJ Axe) or in burst (war hammer). Both have advantages in 1v1 vs mages. I have killed more mages with a war hammer than I have ever with a 1h dp'd weapon. That burst damage surprises them every time - they run from the 1h weapon more successfully.

In a duel pit, 1h dp'd weapon over 2h for sure, but in the real world (aka field), you can't hardly stay close enough to one long enough to deal out a ton of damage unless they are just bad.

In 1v1 situations, a good mage vs a good dexxor - the dexxor will almost always win - there is just too much stacked in his/her favor otherwise.

 

[wreckognize]

Also to those who keep pushing the idea that dex is better than mage in a 1v1 turny, you're wrong, and apparently haven't been to too many turnys.

I've played in a ton of turnys here. The best mages here, in 7x, like azria, aga, marley, I don't think they've ever been defeated by a dexie. Why is that exactly? I've seen the best dexies go against the best mages and the mages always win. So please stop saying dex is better than mage in 1v1. It isn't, and that is not what this suggestion is trying to fix anyways.

This suggestion is simply to limit the # of hits or misses in a row, because it's better balanced. It's pretty simple logic really.

I've seen people get discouraged using their dexie when they suddenly miss 9 times in a row, costing them their life and all of the expensive equipment required for them to win.

The question is, in the field, does a dexie need a certain # of hits streak to win, or does a mage need a certain # of misses in order to defeat a dexie?

It doesn't need to be the original suggestion here, where 2 hander auto-hits after 2 misses, and 1 hander auto-hits after 3 misses, we could simply make it so if a 2 hander misses 4 times in a row, next one will be a hit, or if a 1 hander misses 6 times in a row, next one will be a hit, with a short cooldown like 6 seconds on the auto hit so you can't prep it as some have suggested. (actually thought I did mention it as a drawback in the OP but apparently I forgot to)

At some point, you have to admit that there are a certain number of misses in a row that are unacceptable if you want balanced PvP, so lets figure out what that number is and work towards a fix. at 50% chance you could literally miss for the rest of your life, never hitting again. It's possible, and that's really what we're trying to prevent.

 

[Winstonian]

That burst damage surprises them every time - they run from the 1h weapon more successfully.

That speaks to the effectiveness of running, not the ineffectiveness of 1h weapons.

 

[wreckognize]

That speaks to the effectiveness of running, not the ineffectiveness of 1h weapons.

Ok mate but can you just stay on the topic here please? It's all pretty unrelated to the suggestion.

 

[Winstonian]

Ok mate but can you just stay on the topic here please? It's all pretty unrelated to the suggestion.

The effectiveness of 1h and 2h weapons in PvP is unrelated to the amount of times each misses during PvP?

 

[CAPTUN AUSTRALIA]

The biggest problem i have with playing a dexer isn't the RNG of hits, it's restocking the weapons!

Playing a dexer is very expensive if you are to be effective (along with having to hit most your exp pots), whereas being some clown pressing target closest in a gank mage crew is as cheap as it is easy.

Good weapons are not only hard to find, they're shit expensive - that's my gripe.

 

[Kawkaw]

Archers back in the good ole days where feared by pks. We always had 2 in the group when we was out and was very effective in a spartan style huddle while pks where coming in and attempting to drop us. I have always played a archer in UO/UOF and its truely sad that they are not any line of defense here at all. If the miss rate in pvp was better then we would have our line of defense against zergs. Almost every movie you see where a zerg type battle takes place you have archers raining down hell from above

Archers feel weak in PvP here compared to what they were on OSI in T2A.

 

[Wizx13]

Archers feel weak in PvP here compared to what they were on OSI in T2A.

Back on OSI you could depend on archery to hit. Here you cant. (Pvp wise)

 

[wreckognize]

Archers feel weak in PvP here compared to what they were on OSI in T2A.

In t2a vanq heavy xbows did like 90 damage. Here the damage is close to that (so I've heard) only if the heavy x is exceptional+vanq. So back then it was just more common to see that amount of damage pouring out of every mounted archer. That's really the only reason it feels that way.

Shit, before t2a I heard heavy x was a 1 hitta quitta, dealing over 100 damage. t2a was just the first in a set of nerfs to archery so the damage was still very high at the time, compared to today.

If you couple a heavy xbow hit off the top with something like a precasted flamestrike scroll and maybe bounce a couple spells off with scribe reflect, you really are one dangerous, glass-cannonin', mage-bustin' mo-fo. Archery is glorious here on UO:F and only requires people to mix a little style into their game in order to make it effective.

Still, this suggestion doesn't change the game at all. You can still miss the first couple or few swings, which often determine the outcome of the fight.

You will no longer need to be upset that you missed your target 9 times in a row. Likewise, your opponent in the next fight will not have to be upset that you didn't miss once in nine swings. It's really a Win/Win situation for everyone if a cap on # of misses/hits gets implemented. But there are those certain few people here who would prefer to stroke their ego's and argue, even often without a viable argument. To them I say this:

Nuff said.

 

[Winstonian]

A valid argument was proposed: guaranteeing hits would allow players to spar before a fight and set their hits. It would be easy to manipulate.

A better suggestion to achieve something similar: every miss reduces the chance to miss again by X percent within 5 seconds. Still RNG (the way UO dexer PvP always has been), but it can't be loaded, and it doesn't guarantee anything.

 

[Trojandrew]

But there are those certain few people here who would prefer to stroke their ego's and argue, even often without a viable argument.

so arguing with me over playing devils advocate on archery vs magery isnt ok, got it.

but as winstonian and i previously mentioned, you cant just count the numbers per hit, it has to be RNG or else it will be exploited.