wreckognize
Grandmaster
not with the five second cooldown on automatic hits or misses (solution for that argument) that has been proposed. You're not reading before posting, so just stop posting please.
New hit chance mechanics for PvP - Capped # of hits or misses
- Thread starter wreckognize
- Start date
not with the five second cooldown on automatic hits or misses (solution for that argument) that has been proposed. You're not reading before posting, so just stop posting please.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
there's no way to exploit this, if you'd simply read the thread. thanks.
Trojandrew
Grandmaster
no way possible? i already explained how you exploit this earlier in the thread. i even gave a counter proposal that incorporates rng and a diminishing return to garuntee a hit while keeping it unpredictable.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
I updated the OP for you argumentative types. Please read the edit so you may understand why it's not possible to exploit the automatic hit function. thanks.
Trojandrew
Grandmaster
sorry for being argumentative, since i do like this issue/resolve i keep coming back to contribute.
if that amount(lets say 5 seconds) to reset the timer to eliminate the exploit came into effect, then would the revers be also considered in that, if someone was running away from you, they could reset the counter as long as they knew the amount they had to run b4 you could continue missing?
Edit: or could you prolong the counter by staying in combat through the use of pots?
if that amount(lets say 5 seconds) to reset the timer to eliminate the exploit came into effect, then would the revers be also considered in that, if someone was running away from you, they could reset the counter as long as they knew the amount they had to run b4 you could continue missing?
Edit: or could you prolong the counter by staying in combat through the use of pots?
wreckognize
Grandmaster
does it sound like you could prolong the counter by using pots? of course not. so why ask
also, if someone starts running from you to avoid the automatic hit, then that counts as a win, because they're running from you. IMO anyways.
But if they're just trying to offscreen you for five seconds to avoid the automatic hit, at least you will get that extra time bandaging. that's like half a bandage right there.
That's actually part of the reason why I thought this idea was so good, tbh. Because it gives an advantage to those who are paying close attention to what's going on. This empowers the dexie, similar to a mage. Rather than just needing to be close to your opponent, now you get a small boost if you're actually zoned in.
also, if someone starts running from you to avoid the automatic hit, then that counts as a win, because they're running from you. IMO anyways.
But if they're just trying to offscreen you for five seconds to avoid the automatic hit, at least you will get that extra time bandaging. that's like half a bandage right there.
That's actually part of the reason why I thought this idea was so good, tbh. Because it gives an advantage to those who are paying close attention to what's going on. This empowers the dexie, similar to a mage. Rather than just needing to be close to your opponent, now you get a small boost if you're actually zoned in.
Trojandrew
Grandmaster
because pots could count as continuous damage going out keeping you in combat, or else how will the counter know when to start and stop? would it start counting as soon as the last swing missed? or would it be at the next attempt after enough time passed to reload a swing, if you are taking damage, would the counter keep going even if you cant swing (stunned) or would the counter be paused or reset in that instance because you were physically out of combat.
i ask because all of this has to go into question when you are bringing up a suggestion. the more thorough and thought out the better and the less work the devs have to do since then its just tweeking it and coding.
im not asking just because i want to ask, im asking because i want to his this issue from every angle so it can be put into the game quicker.
i ask because all of this has to go into question when you are bringing up a suggestion. the more thorough and thought out the better and the less work the devs have to do since then its just tweeking it and coding.
im not asking just because i want to ask, im asking because i want to his this issue from every angle so it can be put into the game quicker.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
Argumentative types? Do you ever get the fucking clue that we're discussing the proposal you're making on the forum made for discussing proposals?
You act like a fucking tool, and it's unnecessary. No, automatic hit or miss should not be in the game. Greater hit chance after two misses? Possibly. Guaranteed? No. Give it up.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
lol nay, it wouldn't have anything to do with maintaining aggro. If this was linked to the aggro timer then it would be entirely exploitable because aggro lasts like 45 seconds or a full minute or something. I said 5 seconds. I dunno what's hard to understand about that.
You're missing the point, (seemingly on purpose). Even with a greater hit chance, you could still technically miss or hit 9 times in a row. Or tbh infinite times in a row.
The problem is that 9 misses or hits in a row is poorly balanced PvP. Your solution doesn't fix the problem, but mine does. Keep trying to derail though. I asked a simple question, how many sequential misses or hits is too many, and you keep failing to answer it.
Dex is a coin toss, totally luck based. Whereas magery has nothing to do with luck, it's all skill. I think that solving the above problem of too many sequential hits/misses, while bringing a bit more depth to dexfighting if it could maintain a good balance would be optimal.
Trojandrew
Grandmaster
ok, 5 seconds, i get it. now read what i wrote about the timer on that 5 seconds. when does it start? when does it end? this is put into the calculation b/c the game has to have a statement saying when this occurs. its a whole new timer they would have to add into the game.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
dude if they coded this in it would clearly start when the automatic hit or miss was generated by # of sequential misses or hits. The cooldown starts when the ability is activated.
So back on topic. If people could answer this question.
How many misses or hits in a row do you think is too many:
1) for one handed weapons?
2) for two handed weapons?
Trojandrew
Grandmaster
1) 4-6 depends on swing speed, faster 1h 6, slower 4.
2)3-4, same thing. faster 2h 3, slower 4
they could do it like every 10 speed on a wep would generate an additional chance or something. so its not putting small spears the same advantage of a hally
2)3-4, same thing. faster 2h 3, slower 4
they could do it like every 10 speed on a wep would generate an additional chance or something. so its not putting small spears the same advantage of a hally
this, this is the answer i was trying to get, not hard typing that instead of asking if i dont know what 5 seconds is
wreckognize
Grandmaster
You know, the 5 seconds is debatable really.
I said 5 seconds so that players wouldn't be able to switch from a 1 hander to a 2 hander to score the automatic hit with a bigger weapon. But maybe it would be better if you could do that?
So to bring depth to a dexie, if he just missed 3 times in a row with a kryss, he knows he's going to land an automatic hit, so he can switch to a spear for it? In which case the cooldown on auto hit/miss would become 10 seconds.
Thoughts?
I said 5 seconds so that players wouldn't be able to switch from a 1 hander to a 2 hander to score the automatic hit with a bigger weapon. But maybe it would be better if you could do that?
So to bring depth to a dexie, if he just missed 3 times in a row with a kryss, he knows he's going to land an automatic hit, so he can switch to a spear for it? In which case the cooldown on auto hit/miss would become 10 seconds.
Thoughts?
Winstonian
Grandmaster
Good. A post with more substance and less douchebaggery. I can work with this.
If we're arguing hypotheticals, the counter to your first paragraph would be "well, right, but, right now, you could technically hit infinitely times in a row... so nerf dexer hit rate". We need to stop dealing in hypotheticals.
The issue is that mages and dexers are fundamentally different, and always have been. There are advantages to each. You mention that spells can't miss: well, swings don't get interrupted. The balance to spells not being interrupted was Inscription, which - at GM - only provides a 75% chance to avoid interruption. To then balance misses with dexers, misses should receive a similar cap under certain circumstances. 100% is not the solution.
To answer the question above:
- Two misses with a slow weapon are too many. One miss with a slow weapon should bump the hit chance of the next swing to 75%, and a second miss should bump the hit chance to 90%. One hit drops the hit chance back to 50%.
- Three misses with a fast weapon are too many. Two misses with a fast weapon should bump the hit chance of the next swing to 75%, and a third miss should bump the hit chance to 90%. One hit drops the hit chance back to 50%.
If you miss 5 times with either weapon: find a healer, get resurrected, restock and go fight. It happens. The element of RNG should not leave dexer PvP, unless you're prepared to have the player select different swings, get interrupted while attempting to execute them, and have each swing require X amount of stamina, which it consumes. In other words: it would be magery with weapons.
Trojandrew
Grandmaster
i agree on the increase if changed, its like i proposed before a swing speed value on the miss, to fill up a bar so to speak.
so a 50 speed would generate 1 point, 30 speed 2 points 10 speed 3 points (just tossing out number) so your swing speed would generate how fast or slow you create your Hit.
and you could have that bar start to degenerate after a certain amount of time has passed so you cant proc it
so a 50 speed would generate 1 point, 30 speed 2 points 10 speed 3 points (just tossing out number) so your swing speed would generate how fast or slow you create your Hit.
and you could have that bar start to degenerate after a certain amount of time has passed so you cant proc it
wreckognize
Grandmaster
It's nice to see a post with more substance and less douchebaggery. I think I can work with this.
Your logic is flawed. Try to remember that mages can cast magic arrow with a 0% chance of being disturbed.
So realistically, @Trojandrew is correct. The best way to implement this is to scale weapons by their swing speed VERSUS how much average damage a mage can inflict using magic arrow to determine the exact # of misses per weapon before an automatic, 100% chance to hit swing is generated.
to demonstrate this logic, I will put forward an example:
A mage and dexie attack eachother. The mage continually casts magic arrow on the dexer. The dexer misses 3 times with a katana, and then his 4th swing is an automatic hit which causes 30 damage. In the same amount of time, the mage has casted magic arrow 6 times, causing 30 damage.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
... wut? You're willing to pull out a never-happens, wont-happen scenario to try and make widespread changes to PvP?
Fuck it. There's no helping this.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
I also think there should be a 10 second cooldown on the automatic 100% chance to hit swing, rather than 5 seconds, so that in the above example, the swordsman can equip a hally and have time to swing it for the hit.
Why this is balanced is because 30 is only the average damage of 6 magic arrows, the maximum damage 6 magic arrows can cause is actually 54. So if the dexie is paying attention, he can equip a hally and try to reach his maximum damage potential as well.
Why this is balanced is because 30 is only the average damage of 6 magic arrows, the maximum damage 6 magic arrows can cause is actually 54. So if the dexie is paying attention, he can equip a hally and try to reach his maximum damage potential as well.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
Dude, this scenario happens all the time. It's what a mage versus dexie duel looks like in a 7x turny match that has reached sudden death.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
So that's the scenario used to change all of dexer PvP? I don't agree.
A guaranteed hit would be a mistake. Increase hit chance from consecutive misses? Sure. It shouldn't be 100%.