Dex Suits now have -10 Dex Loss...

[Calamity]

http://www.strangeworld.com/uo/armor/

follow this adam,
I dont thi
[QUOTE="Ghaldoun, post: 273650, member: 6151"]And oh since now we lose 10 dex on our warriors what happens to heal rate it goes beyond 10.5 seconds per heal? I mean if you are GM Heal, GM Anat, and 100 dex dont you think 10.5 seconds per heal is alil long? Now you sent our Dex to 90 I hate to see how long healing takes now. theres more to this then you think when you and staff have a chat and do this[/QUOTE]


The swing speed is not a big problem, most people still swing at the same rate with their kryss and katanas, This right here is the biggest Issue that no one is talking about.

 

[halygon]

This will probably be my last post on this subject. Rather lengthy, but I get into a habit of doing that.

I don't think these changes are going to be that bad, but I haven't yet seen anyone post information about what was "nerfed" with the leather armors.

If you think -10 dex is too awful, you could just use ringmail tunics and leggings for -5 dex with only slightly less AR than a chainmail tunic and leggings. Agility potions can give you 100+ dex with a chainmail + ringmail combo, so I'm thinking having 91-92 dex with chainmail users or 86-87 dex with ringmail only dexxers would work best because you can drink an agility and refresh potion to get 101-102 dex with the -10 and -5 dex loss suits and this is enough to get hit with a clumsy spell or run through something and still swing at the 2nd fastest rate. There is the other option of using invul studded leather, which I think is about the same AR as an exceptional valorite suit (51-52 AR), although I think this includes a regular dexxer helm as for some reason there is no studded leather helm. If they "nerfed" studded leather armor, perhaps they should only "nerf" leather armor and leave studded alone. This will increase the value of studded leather, which needs some better usefulness. Additionally, if they "nerfed" the studded leather, this would possibly make studded gorgets that people often use in their -10 dex suits less reliable. I can see leather armor on mages needing a bit of a nerf, but hopefully not too much.

Bone armor suits should be a bit rarer on a logical basis, because you can't craft bones, and getting just the right bone sizes to put together a suit of bone armor should take some work and dedication. This is just a game, though. Also, how do you go about repairing crushed bones? At worst, you would have to find bone replacement parts with the right length, which should be more of a chore than simply using some ingots to repair normal armor with a blacksmith. Repairing a bunch of crushed bones to a working state should be more difficult than simply using ingots to repair armor. I bet you it will cut down on some of the junk that is stacking up in the game if bone armor became no longer repairable while giving 0 dex loss. People will be getting their bone suits ruined without dying on a regular basis.

In all fairness, making bone armor pieces a rare find will put newer players at a disadvantage to the players who have already done thousands of MiBs/T-maps throughout the years and have hoarded hundreds of invul/fort bone armor pieces. All of a sudden their collection has gone up in value by quite a lot, and these changes won't even affect them for quite some time until they finally run out of bone armor, which would be a lot sooner if they could not repair the bone armor. If they could not repair it, they will have to conserve on their bone armor stash and use them more wisely if they don't want to have to deal with farming for them or buying them in the future.

We can simply make the bone armor pieces NOT repairable at all while giving 0 dex loss, like it was back in time. If not, perhaps -10 dex loss only for bone armor. The other idea was to keep the bone armor at 0 dex loss and make them more of a rare drop on monsters and in chests. Well, I've already got quite a lot of these bone armor pieces, so I wouldn't be complaining, but I think it is somewhat unfair for new adventurers to get a lot less suits of bone armor for their efforts and time.

Logically looking at it, you might conclude that the bone armor SHOULD give dex loss because it is an armor that isn't leather and must weigh something considerable. Well, looking at the armor, you will notice leather on the bone armor so it is partly made out of leather. Also, it isn't covering the whole body, and especially not the back side. Your biceps are exposed and so are the upper parts of your legs and all over the back side.

If nothing is done, I won't be using bone armor anymore, except for maybe the -0 dex bone helm, but this is fine as well. Maybe someone else will find a superior use for bone armor with -13 dex.

I don't think people going around with -0 dex 64 AR invul bone suits is going to be that much of an advantage, and they will be losing their suits no matter what over time if you make bone armor no longer repairable. People might argue that this will turn the game more in the direction of an an item based game or complain that everyone will simply be looking like a skeleton due to possible high demand for magic bone armor. The thing is, these suits will become less widespread over time if they are not repairable unless there are enough hunters to keep filling the shard up with them. Also, if you don't like the looks, you can easily mask the fact that you are wearing bone armor by wearing a robe and switching the helm out for a standard dexxer helm and possibly replacing the gloves with studded gloves for a -1 AR loss, assuming they didn't "nerf" studded leather.

Even with just a -10 dex loss on the bone armor, I can still foresee myself using it on some of my characters. Otherwise, I'd probably stick with either -5 dex loss ringmail and 86-87 dex or -10 dex loss chainmail and 91-92 dex. The reason for as much as 92 dex is because this way you can wear a platemail gorget and not suffer any swing penalty for the -1 dex if you get a clumsy on you while fighting. I don't want to go with -13 dex loss and 94 dex (31 int) as that would only leave me with 20 mana after using recall, which makes for about 1 greater heal and then the possibility of not being able to recall for a while. With 100 str, 33 int, and 92 dex, I can at least recall somewhere and have 23 mana left over for either 2 greater heals or 1 gh and another recall. You can always have a friend or an alt cast gate for you to move around, but even then it is nice to have enough mana to cast 3 level 4 spells so you might as well gate yourself around on an alt and stick with 33+ int. There are all sorts of play styles and that is nice. Another play style would be to go with 100 dex and 25 int with a platemail suit and then gate yourself around on an alt and still be able to cast 2 level 4 spells with up to 75 AR for a nice edge over another solo dexxer. This play style would not be that much of an edge with the -13 dex bone armor, because the bone armor only offers a measly 3 AR improvement over a -10 dex chainmail suit and only a 1 AR improvement over a -11 dex suit that includes a platemail gorget. I also just don't like the thought of having 100 dex on my archers and being forced to constantly use an agility potion in order to fire at a decently fast rate while wearing bone armor. So, for PvM and even PvP without potions, there is the swing/fire rate issue that the bone armor automatically gives you and requires an agility potion to fix.

Just like to point this out since you have already posted on several threads about this same flawed logic:

FYI: @Adam released the logic a couple weeks back that the swing rate is based directly upon your dex/stamina -- not upon the newer OSI calculations of tiers of 30 dex/stam. This means that you actually swing faster between 80 and 85 dex as opposed to the prior thinking that you had to have 90 to actually swing faster.

 

[girana]

6 hp vanq blows to barbed wearing mages is just stupid.

repair your weapon

 

[Tydeus]

Just like to point this out since you have already posted on several threads about this same flawed logic:

Wow! I read the 30 stamina thing on this forum probably about 5+ times. I'd really like to know the exact # at which you swing faster, as between 80-85 is a bit vague.

 

[halygon]

Wow! I read the 30 stamina thing on this forum probably about 5+ times. I'd really like to know the exact # at which you swing faster, as between 80-85 is a bit vague.

I know.. we all thought it was based off of the current OSI forumla but the era accurate forumla is used here on uof.

It is not a specific range, it is scaled from 0-120 based off of what your exact dex (and weapon speed) is and then prorated based on stam (ie.. if you are not at 100% you swing slower than if at 100%). It is linear which means that even a move from 81-82 technically changes your swing speed (albeit by a minute amount).

Adam on the subject: http://uoforum.com/threads/dexterity-and-swing-speed.41656/page-2#post-263883
Era Reference: http://web.archive.org/web/20010302013258/http://uo.stratics.com/

 

[edw3rdwood]

-10 dex is not that bad. Chain is still going to be the best option for most dexxers. If the change was bad enough to completely change the armor tiers, like forcing you to wear studded, then I'd see reason to complain.

It was a bit weird how chain had no dex loss, and then BOOM -25 dex with plate.

 

[leer0ybrown]

I welcome my heavy archer armor and light archer armor suits.

 

[NoXXeD]

@Adam or any other staff please show us this 70 armor? the highest I could get with a combo of chain and bone was 64 i think. full repair everything that is 6 below 70. Even with the 60 armor archers and lumberjackers would hit for 30 and 40 like i was wearing nothing.

 

[Tydeus]

I'd definitely like the staff to rethink nerfing studded leather armor if they have already done so. I know that many people, including myself, use some studded leather sometimes in their dexxer suits. I mainly just use the gloves and gorgets. They both offer no dex loss and are dyeable, so you can get rid of the plain colors that come with armors that can't be dyed. People without crafters don't have any options for a no dex loss gorget if you are nerfing studded leather armor. They would have to use a -0 dex studded gorget that has some sort of penalties or be forced to buy dragonscale gorgets, and those usually only come with whole suits.

Sorry for the long posts, but I thought of a few reasons why bone armor should no longer be repairable and a few reasons why it COULD be and maybe SHOULD be repairable in moderation, along with some other ideas. I don't even care either way what is decided upon, so long as it doesn't break the game or make a certain armor type worthless. Below you can find some ideas about how to cut back on armor pieces cluttering the shard and also some tailoring ideas.

The entire bone suit looks like it was taken from a whole skeleton of a non-human entity, such as a gargoyle. If you want to repair the suit, you need to go kill a gargoyle and skin it for its bones, or have access to another crushed up bone armor suit, which is bound to have damaged or missing bone fragments. But, killing a gargoyle defeats the purpose of the "repair" because you will have a whole new suit that you can make with the dead gargoyle instead of repairing an old suit, unless you are repairing MAGIC bone armor, which opens up a whole new can of worms. However, using an old busted up suit for salvage to help repair another busted up suit of bone armor makes sense. Perhaps we can include something in the game for tailors, that will enable them to create a repair contract for bone armor if they are legendary, but the catch is that the contract USERS must have a spare busted up bone armor piece in order to repair another piece of bone armor, and the contract CREATORS must have some leather because the bone suit is partly leather. One suit of busted up armor gets salvaged and totally destroyed in order to make repairs on the other suit of bone armor. It would be like when you go to use the provocation skill, it asks you which instrument you want to use, but this time it will ask which matching bone armor piece do you want to salvage and then it will open a cursor that will instruct you to target the piece of bone armor you want repaired. This will allow players to recycle their broken bone armor pieces one time in order to repair another broken piece. The tailors should charge a good amount of gold for the contracts on their vendors. I'm not talking anything cheap like 25gp; maybe 1k, which would be 5k for an entire suit. It would be up to each individual tailor what they charge, but I would suggest asking at least 500gp-1k per contract.

One previously stated reason bone armor should not be repaired is because repairing a bunch of crushed bones to their working state should be very difficult without the proper bone replacement parts. The crushed bones are very likely to have missing pieces of bone fragments as well, which would require a whole new bone replacement. Now, the magic variety of bone armor is going to be missing enchanted pieces of bone fragments on the armor after taking a beating. How do you replace enchanted bones that were once indestructible / invulnerability? The repair work now becomes even more ridiculous. But, none of this is treated as such in the game. Bone armor is allowed to be easily repaired.

As it was before, if bone armor was not repairable, it would become a rather worthless suit compared to the other 0 dex loss suits which can be repaired. Who would waste their money on bone armor if they could instead buy a suit that only gives 1-3 less AR and will last for a lot longer? They would only buy it for a slight edge that will not last for very long because you will be losing 1-3 AR on that bone suit in a very short time.

It appears that bone armor is partly made out of leather, and that the bones are not covering the whole body like a normal armor suit does, e.g., the bone leggings are only covering the shins and knees on the front side, while the upper leg is exposed and on the back side there is no bone armor visible at all on the legs. I don't think this bone suit warrants a -13 dex loss. If anything, it should be 0 to low dex loss (-3?) while at the same time not be repairable or only repairable with a contract from a legendary tailor with the proper bone piece to salvage from. If it is a magic piece of bone armor you are trying to repair, I'd say it would require the same type of magic bone piece but not the exact same type as I think we can leave out the durability modifier and carry that over into the new repaired piece. The durability rating of the salvaged bone piece could be calculated into the new durability rating of the repaired piece. For instance, if you are salvaging a durable bone piece to repair an indestructible bone piece, the durability should go down a bit further than normal. I'm sure you could work some formula out, or if you're kind of lazy you could just carry the durability of the salvaged bone piece over into the durability of the repaired piece. This way people will view bone armor as a quick throwaway suit (if totally unrepairable) for a short lasting 0 to -3 dex loss advantage that also gives slightly more AR than the regular dexxer suits and the armor itself will not become totally useless but have some purpose for both tailors and dexxers. Looking at those bone armor pieces, I would have to say the only pieces I can see that might warrant dex loss is the actual "bone armor" and maybe the bone gloves. "Bone armor" is the chest piece and that is what it is labeled in the game. The other pieces could be considered to be a part of the armor, but they are labeled as bone arms, bone helmet, bone leggings, and bone gloves. The so-called "arms" only cover the wrist area and they are more like bone bracers, so why the dex loss? The hands may be leather gloves with an outer bone covering. The chest may or may not warrant a -2 dex loss (the back side is almost like the legs in that it is partly uncovered) and the hands MIGHT (maybe not?) warrant a -1 dex loss. 0 dex loss may be a tad unrealistic for this armor, but I know it would make some people happy.

I know that players may not like the idea of not being able to repair armor without a matching magic piece (aside from durability) to salvage from, but we can just make this something that must be done with bone armor only if it is too much that they would REQUIRE a matching magic piece to salvage from ALL other armor types (which makes sense when you think about it). You may not lose armor pieces on damaged regular armor as much as you would lose them on bone armor, but you will at least lose SOME of the enchanted armor when you repair it with regular leather or ingots or bones. This may be a way to cut back on ALL armor types in the game, so people will be running around with lower AR on average, because they will be required to have a salvageable magic armor piece of the same type to repair one piece of their armor. This will also cut back on the amount of armor pieces people have stored up.

Edit:

Basically, it would go like this:

1. Dexxer wears out bone armor.
2. Dexxer wants to repair bone armor but needs 5 matching bone pieces of the same type to salvage the good unbroken bones from before repairing.
3. Dexxer salvages the "good" bones that aren't broken from a used bone armor suit of the same type that he wants to repair.
4. This destroys the suit that was salvaged from, but repairs the other suit, thus saving/repairing the well-used bone suit with another well-used bone suit.

You basically have to destroy one suit in order to repair another, so this kind of makes bone armor in general more "rare" by default, because you can't repair it without having a legendary repair contract or a legendary tailor and a matching bone piece you want to destroy in order to fully repair another matching bone piece. The dexxers will of course need at least two bone suits that have been worn out before they turn them both into one fully repaired bone suit, and if they don't have a legendary tailor, they will have to buy a bone armor repair contract that could be costly for 5 of them. They will be "saving" or "salvaging" one bone suit from destruction via the trashcan at the cost of either making a legendary tailor (power scrolls and time) or buying contracts. The other cost is of course the destruction of another matching bone suit or piece that we salvaged/saved the unbroken bones off of to make repairs with.

This will all by default make bone armor harder to maintain and much easier to lose as it will end up costing you matching bone armor pieces if you wear the suits frequently even if you don't die and get looted. You will only be able to repair one bone suit by destroying another bone suit.

The different matching types of bone armor refers to magic bone armor of all strengths (Defense through Invulnerability), normal bone armor (you would only need another piece of normal matching bone armor to repair it), and crafted bone armor that can be significantly more strong than invulnerability bone armor. It will end up being costly to always be wearing a repaired or barely used high AR bone suit.

This setback for bone armor can then be balanced by LOWERING the dex loss on it to a reasonable level. I was thinking -0 (semi-unreasonable) to as much as possibly -4 (-3 for the "bone armor" and -1 for the "bone gloves").

For reasons I have pointed out previously, various parts on this armor are leather and the bones do not cover the whole body. The so-called "arms" (bracers), helm, "leggings" and possibly gloves are not something I would think of as dexterity prohibiting pieces of armor. There is good armor separation at the waist area down to the knees and at the shoulder down to the wrist, and all over the back side. The so-called "leggings" (shin and knee pads?) aren't really leggings and you get plenty of room to maneuver, and the same goes for the "arms."

This is only a suggestion as to what can be done for bone armor. That suit does not look like a dex hog.

 

[besttherewas]

repair your weapon

With my 120 blacksmith?

I repair weapons after dp is gone. No issue there.

 

[alvaradolesanchez]

I will just run naked with Parrying, and have 40 something armor

 

[halygon]

@Adam or any other staff please show us this 70 armor? the highest I could get with a combo of chain and bone was 64 i think. full repair everything that is 6 below 70. Even with the 60 armor archers and lumberjackers would hit for 30 and 40 like i was wearing nothing.

I roll with 68 AR horned runic bone. If I had barbed then it would be higher. I just haven't made any barbed yet with my new kit

 

[Deimos]

Studded Leather now best choice for dexer:
http://uoforum.com/threads/faction-blessed-clothing-agapite-made-runic-weapons.43126/

Full Horned Studded Leather Suit 57 AR - for dexers
and
Full Horned Leather Suit 54 AR -for mages


WHY? studded gives only +3 AR??
and WHY regular(made without runic) barbed exp give 31 AR and full horned runic armor give 54 ar?It not OP now?

 

[Deimos]

http://www.strangeworld.com/uo/armor/

follow this adam,
I dont thi
[QUOTE="Ghaldoun, post: 273650, member: 6151"]And oh since now we lose 10 dex on our warriors what happens to heal rate it goes beyond 10.5 seconds per heal? I mean if you are GM Heal, GM Anat, and 100 dex dont you think 10.5 seconds per heal is alil long? Now you sent our Dex to 90 I hate to see how long healing takes now. theres more to this then you think when you and staff have a chat and do this

interesting idea: Valorite suits give +16 dex
but
on uof you cant create armor with bs runic

i am miss time when dex wear platemail

 

[leer0ybrown]

interesting idea: Valorite suits give +16 dex
but
on uof you cant create armor with bs runic

i am miss time when dex wear platemail

I can't ever remember a time where dexxers wore platemail. Tanks with shields wore platemail. As a lumberjack, I rolled with heavy archer armor. The other most common was light archer armor. Mages rolled with studded. This was mostly before runics and the buff to colored armor and spined and horned leather. Back when everything was made of iron and if you wore valorite, you were considered wealthy. I remember a suit of heavy archer iron costing 3k and a suit of heavy archer valorite costing close to 20k. The good ol' days.

 

[Wizx13]

Waaaayyy back in the day I was a full plate wearing tank mage casting e-bolt then equipping my hally....fun times

 

[Tearloch]

So I just checked all the suits on my vendor.

It looks like all the metal armor took a hit in both Dex loss AND AR. All my archer suits went down by 3 AR, so a Valorite suit (chain chest/legs, ring arms/gloves, plate gorget, close helm) went from 52 AR to 49 AR, and from -1 Dex to -11 Dex. OUCH!

If you are looking for suggestions, why not allow the colored metals to do something more than give a small increase in AR?????

I am a fairly new player here, so I don't have all the history on this. But from my perspective, mage's already had a huge advantage in general in the game. This change seems to shift the scales even further in that direction.

 

[Wizx13]

My dex suits look like this now...

Suit is ring gloves, arms, chain chest, legs, close helm, dragon gorget. All suits are -10 dex.

33 AR Iron Dex
35 AR Dull Copper Dex
37 AR Shadow Dex
38 AR Copper Dex
40 AR Bronze Dex
42 AR Golden Dex
43 AR Agapite Dex
45 AR Verite Dex
48 AR Valorite Dex

 

[halygon]

But from my perspective, mage's already had a huge advantage in general in the game. This change seems to shift the scales even further in that direction.

These changes actually didn't help mages at all. Mages lost AR on their leather suits.

No one gain an advantage EXCEPT dexxors.

 

[Don Key]

These changes actually didn't help mages at all. Mages lost AR on their leather suits.

No one gain an advantage EXCEPT dexxors.

Take your facts and GTFO