Defense Talisman Changes

[Masseur]

I dont understand why the change was made. I only see unfair griefing withouth any kind of interaction between the players. Its just so easy to just fire an arrow hide and then come back to loot.

 

[JackPalance]

Need more options on your poll indicating whether or not you own a defense talisman. Too many people will only suggest changes that will benefit their own self-interests. Case in point - Genocide Pete was completely against talismans when he first came to the server. He did not want them functioning in PVP. Once he acquired a defense talisman his opinion did a complete 180 and now he vigorously defends talismans.

Just for the record- I do not have a defense talisman, and probably never will.

My main concern is that this will allow anyone to pretty much one shot a defense talisman user with a bow.

 

[TyroneG]

@TyroneG What's your stance on the fact that a Defense Tali can be wading into mobs, attacking, and a player can come along, and turn his defense tali off?

I think it's a good change, and the talis shouldn't be applicable in PvP. But right now, it's still applicable, in that a player can use that as a huge opening move, a grief tactic even. If a player is attacked, they should be able to walk out of the spawn and attack back before the defense reduction disappears.

That said I don't have a defense tali yet, only a mage tali - so take that for what it's worth, but like I posted above, I still think there are other relics like Vivify that could be tweaked along the same mindset of not working in PvP. Even if it's not a common build for it.

I would like for it to be that when a player either attacks OR attacks back the talismans are disabled. So a dexxer in a group of mobs attacked by someone in the distance would still keep his talismans effects. Once the player swings back and/or casts a negative spell on the attacker the talisman effects are disabled.

In this way the changes have no direct effect on players who truly only use the talisman to PVM.

 

[Masseur]

I would like for it to be that when a player either attacks OR attacks back the talismans are disabled. So a dexxer in a group of mobs attacked by someone in the distance would still keep his talismans effects. Once the player swings back and/or casts a negative spell on the attacker the talisman effects are disabled.

I like this tangeant. Id make it to not work also with summons, so easy to target a player and make him hit your summons in champ spawns.

 

[Sir Angus]

I would like for it to be that when a player either attacks OR attacks back the talismans are disabled. So a dexxer in a group of mobs attacked by someone in the distance would still keep his talismans effects. Once the player swings back and/or casts a negative spell on the attacker the talisman effects are disabled.

Chars swing back automatically so that would not leave a choice to the player being attacked, all you have to do is run to them and their tali is disabled. That would suck and it again makes it easy for griefers (send a naked thief hit for 1hp and disable the other guys tali, then send your pvper to chase after him with tali protection, just an example).

Staff needs to rethink this entirely IMO.

Full disclosure: I have a defense tali, the talisman is level 10 with a maxxed recoil relic.

 

[Ranker]

I would like for it to be that when a player either attacks OR attacks back the talismans are disabled. So a dexxer in a group of mobs attacked by someone in the distance would still keep his talismans effects. Once the player swings back and/or casts a negative spell on the attacker the talisman effects are disabled.

In this way the changes have no direct effect on players who truly only use the talisman to PVM.

Even auto attack? Because if so then that still doesn't change much in the long run. Just run up hit you make you auto swing back and boom or stealth chars doing it all sneaky like. I say just leave them alone, They are not hurting pvp enough to hurt dexxers 10 fold with a *fix*. Sometimes if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And I think it was just fine the way it was. This coming from a PvMer of course.

 

[AngloSpanglo]

Wow. I didn't even think about how terrible this is. Now every time i accidentally target a grey at a champ or i go grey and get targeted I am getting instantly wrecked by the mobs. Wonderful. It has truly completely ruined champ PvM for me

 

[TyroneG]

Chars swing back automatically so that would not leave a choice to the player being attacked, all you have to do is run to them and their tali is disabled. That would suck and it again makes it easy for griefers (send a naked thief hit for 1hp and disable the other guys tali, then send your pvper to chase after him with tali protection, just an example).

Staff needs to rethink this entirely IMO.

Full disclosure: I have a defense tali, the talisman is level 10 with a maxxed recoil relic.

Your example isn't very practical. People act as if players will suddenly just be trying to disable talismans on people farming 24/7.

It's easy to come up with some rogue example of some "griefer" stealthing up to someone with a defense talisman farming a bunch of mobs to be right next to him and attack him so that he auto attacks back and instantly dies to spawn. Sure it may happen once or twice, but that will not be the norm by any means at all.

 

[Sir Angus]

Even auto attack? Because if so then that still doesn't change much in the long run. Just run up hit you make you auto swing back and boom or stealth chars doing it all sneaky like. I say just leave them alone, They are not hurting pvp enough to hurt dexxers 10 fold with a *fix*. Sometimes if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And I think it was just fine the way it was. This coming from a PvMer of course.

Agree 100%. I'm a PvMer with no red, and I don't understand why anything needs to change? Either on my bard or tali dexxer, I have never been overly concerned by murderers using a defensive talisman when I farm.. After all they too spent dozen of hours leveling it so I say let them use it.

Truth be told, I'd take a solo PK with a maxxed defense tali over a non-talisman zerg any day.

 

[girana]

Your example isn't very practical. People act as if players will suddenly just be trying to disable talismans on people farming 24/7.

thats what i gone do.

 

[Sir Angus]

Your example isn't very practical. People act as if players will suddenly just be trying to disable talismans on people farming 24/7.

It's easy to come up with some rogue example of some "griefer" stealthing up to someone with a defense talisman farming a bunch of mobs to be right next to him and attack him so that he auto attacks back and instantly dies to spawn. Sure it may happen once or twice, but that will not be the norm by any means at all.

Yeah it's an example and it's not ideal, my point is, I'm not sure there was a problem to begin with and now things are shitty and complicated for everybody. What's the cooldown if I get attacked for example?

 

[Lexington]

8 out of 10: Good change - talismans should not affect PvP, even indirectly.
3 out of 10: Poor execution - the defensive bonuses should disable if you are the aggressor (ie. attack another player), the defenders should not disable, until he attacks back, becoming also an aggressor.

From what I understand when the talismans were implemented they were never meant to affect PvP in anyway. This is a change in line with those beliefs. There are still a couple of other relics that have a minor impact on PvP that should also be changed. I've heard them said many times, I'll list the Vivify for a mage, since it's the only talisman I have, and can really speak too. That meta daemon is quick, and FS's a lot when level 10. It should really drop to a regular daemon, if a mage turns aggressor.

Nope... bad change and bad execution! You can't just walk in and change a mechanic that 100's of players have spent 100's of hours leveling. The defense talisman benefit was there since the beginning and it was available for all. If you're to lazy to level one or decide to PVP on a different template that's your choice! Punishing those who already put the work in is absolutely wrong!

 

[Grug'Bug]

Not even to mention now, when reds try to raid a champ I can either try to fight them and lose tali powers, or take my tali off to fight them, and still lose tali powers. Ffs

 

[Sir Angus]

What about attacking a thief during a champ? Get raped instantly by the spawn?

 

[Grug'Bug]

What about attacking a thief during a champ? Get raped instantly by the spawn?

Yup that's exactly what is happening....

 

[jkg8787]

I love the sky is falling mentality of "griefers". lol.

I guarantee that will amost never happen. I doubt many people are pathetic enough to do that (other than girana who's already butt-hurt about the change and has previously announced HE WILL do this thus creating a self-fulfilling prophecy).

Also if this were to become an issue I say just change flag/murder count mechanics. If you attack someone and they die you should get a count. I know its currently only triggered by active-damage before a count is possible, but if this were to become this AWFUL SO BAD EXTREME GRIEFING NIGHTMARE that people are quitting over, why not make attacking a Blue with a talisman a countable offence? If someone wants to stealth around on a red flagging people, off-mount in a champ area where monsters naturally reveal anyways more power to them.

 

[jkg8787]

I love the sky is falling mentality of "griefers". lol.

I guarantee that will amost never happen. I doubt many people are pathetic enough to do that (other than girana who's already butt-hurt about the change and has previously announced HE WILL do this thus creating a self-fulfilling prophecy).

Also if this were to become an issue I say just change flag/murder count mechanics. If you attack someone and they die you should get a count. I know its currently only triggered by active-damage before a count is possible, but if this were to become this AWFUL SO BAD EXTREME GRIEFING NIGHTMARE that people are quitting over, why not make attacking a Blue with a talisman a countable offence? If someone wants to stealth around on a red flagging people, off-mount in a champ area where monsters naturally reveal anyways more power to them.

Oh wait I see people are talking about straight up being attacked THRU damage when wearing a talisman.

So basically this is "I don't want to get PKed"?

 

[Chediak]

I've had the experience of being attacked on my pvm character, trying to escape by running into heavy spawn to hide, and failing and watching in dismay while the PK takes his time in said spawn without taking damage while he dry loots me. I figure that's a typical scenario this change is meant to avoid.

HOWEVER, I would much rather have that scenario continue to happen than contend with a watered-down version of the defense talisman I've been slowly working on for the last 6 months. It upsets me to think someone could come along and attack me, and suddenly get the same penalty cooldown I would have if I'd made a real error (like dying to spawn or not preparing adequately for PK possibility). How do I prepare for that, or avoid it?

 

[jkg8787]

For the record I'm OK with switching this to aggressor only (or making it so if you attack back you ALSO lose). But I still find it laughable that people would quit over such a thing.

 

[jkg8787]

Here watch I'll use girana's own logic against him (said in another thread)

because defense tali and swampies had that big impact in pvp lol

this won't happen that often so its not a big deal lol