A TheFallen suggestion: No more stat loss

[TheFallen]

@Shane basically told the community we need to get a balance between pk/griefer and average Joe or harsher penalties will need to be put in place.

First harsher penalties usually lead to larger groups of pk for safety. Any penalty that results in a reason to log out is not ideal IMHO.

With that in mind I recommend removing stat loss but at the cost of travel within dungeons. If you have any counts you can't gate/recall in/out of a dungeon.

This would result in bless fighting Reds at entrances creating more consensual pvp. Pvm chars getting a bonus of knowing where trouble might come from but still will have to be aware and wary of a possible threat. Will make boss/champ raids require more planning and if successfully defended harder to keep throwing chars at. Not stat means the fight keeps going. If your pvm gets killed you can recall your pvp char to the entrance and get a revenge round.

The only other thing I would add if decrease gold weight significantly as to increase the potential haul for a pk who goes to level 5 of a dungeon. If a pvm dies with 50k on them they can only blame themselves and although for a blue the recall out and back would be quick its a guarantee some players will go until they can't hold any more.

I actually thought this to be a little harsh for the Red side of things but in the other thread I mentioned it I got nothing but positive feed back.

Thoughts? @eppy @Adam @halygon @Blair

 

[TheFallen]

Thoughts?
@K A Z you seemed to be in support in the original thread.

 

[Kairus]

i think putting harsher penalties will just make em roll with bigger groups too. ur idea has a flaw imo, it will make ghosting at dungeon entrances too good, and its not a fun thing to check entrance constantly with ur ghost char.

 

[TheFallen]

I'm not sure who you think will be ghosting. Blues could ghost entrance but that certainly doesn't guarantee safety and gm have said ghosting is illegal so they can be removed.
I don't think this will necessarily make it harder to pk but will require more thought than recall in dump and gate out.

As it is now it is possible to never get pk. Just have recall pre casted at all times. It just comes down to how much work you want to put in. I think this would provide a stronger balance of farmer vs pk. A higher level of pvp at entrances. I must more involved champ raiding scenario.

 

[miner_man]

This is actually brilliant. Remove stat loss, disallow recall/gate into all towns except bucs and all dungeons except one dungeon for reds. Maybe some will ghost entrances with their alts but like mentioned, that's not fun... So i think most people won't bother if the risk is reduced. Maybe give reds in factions the ability to recall into dungeons and towns owned by factions. Faction owned dungeons could be a new feature.

Also, you will have to disallow them to walk through gates to these areas casted by others.

For an added challenge, disallow them from recalling and gating out too, that w would allow for revenge battles at the entrance of dungeons.

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

 

[K A Z]

i like the idea, yea - unfortunately it seems as if Shane is going for the perma statloss, though (bad idea IMO as it just helps blue griefers)

 

[smile it's me]

unfortunately it seems as if Shane is going for the perma statloss

I would really like to see that happen .. A breath of fresh air .. !!

 

[Grizard]

If the head buyback was increased in price to say 50k do you think reds would pay it if the perma stat was implemented? You may find more blues pvp'ing if the money added up.

 

[Streets]

No no no reds have it to easy as it is. They run in packs to minimize the risk. If there are less reds arround there will be less people to group with. The solution is to keep it at 2 day statloss max but the count down timer only runs when the character is loged on. This stops a red from logging in to another red while he wants his 2 day penelties. The toon is not lost forever.

But you made me think that maybe the red would just ghost dungeons and voip to their friends or guilds so maybe make red ghost unable to see living innocents? If they can't see um how can they spy um?

 

[K A Z]

the problem with perma statloss is that it totally fucks over people who don't have hours on end to play this game. What perma statloss (to me) would mean right now is that instead of playing once a week I would get to play once every 2 weeks bcuz I'd have to spent every second week macroing up my chars again - I guess i would do that exactly 1 time before I just couldn't be arsed anymore.

 

[Streets]

I agree with permanent loss, makes no sense but the penelties now are to lax. As much as a blue will disagree they need redd and reds need blues. The problem lies in a balance and right now there are to many reds.

Now i don't mean 1 red to 1 blue but in my honest opinion (feel free to disagree but not an asshole about it be conctrucrive) is that we have about 50% to many dungeon reds give or take.

Also I think alot of it is game balance and mechanics. PKs and pvp in general will take the best minimized/maximized path to damage... meaning if he can do 1 more point of damage taking a skill over another he will. It's not about playing something you like it's about having an advantage over your opponent.

Why does nobody tale begging in a pvp spec? Cause it don't do dick for you! Why does somone take archery over alchamy for ranged? Cause archery is inferior to purple pots.

My point is the mentality a pvp or pk wants to hit you hard in as little time a cusual wants to play what's fun. And gets screwed when they get attacked because they don't have a chance in hell to survive.

Now how this ties into the problem or pvp in general? Well the pk has little risk and the advantage as the agressor. If he dies under the current system there us zero loss really.
Come on 2 days stat loss is just "log into another toon for 2 days"

I understand @K A Z what you are saying about not having time to play this game hours on end. But alot of the people that are being killed are in the same boat and when they are pked a whole days worth of work maybe lost. So is there middle ground?

I keep pushing for the statloss counter to work only while loged in because it's a medium. It's not permanent stat loss... it's not like it is today where if you are in stat you just play another toon. I know unattended play here is permitted so somone can just macro it off but at least that red is not pk'ing for that time. Also the pk can chose it's not worth it at the time to work off statloss and play another toon... there is choice.

I know I don't see eye to eye with some of the pvpers but I think everyone feels there are 2 extreme where this can go...I don't want trammel but I don't want no reds either... there has to be a better spot?

 

[Streets]

Also part of me wants to point out the "don't do the crime if you can't do the time" aspect at least a little

 

[TheFallen]

@Streets I think you are missing the point and getting to caught up in then stat.
If a player has a count they can't recall in or out of a dungeon. This will reduce the Reds willing to run down to you. It will still happen but it will be less often and less zerg.

 

[Streets]

@Streets I think you are missing the point and getting to caught up in then stat.
If a player has a count they can't recall in or out of a dungeon. This will reduce the Reds willing to run down to you. It will still happen but it will be less often and less zerg.

I don't I am getting cought up? The thing that keeps coming up is "if the penelties is harsher they pack will get bigger" if that's the case with no recall in dungeons wouldent it mean they would just do so in a pack? My idea is trying to reduce the ability to even make such packs

 

[K A Z]

I don't I am getting cough up? The thing that keeps coming up is "if the penelties is harsher they pack will get bigger" if that's the case with no recall in dungeons wouldent it mean they would just do so in a pack? My idea is trying to reduce the ability to even make such packs

how are you going to reduce packs? its a mmorpg after all, the only thing that is semi-working is a system where dmg gets reduced when a single target gets hit by several spells at once - one of UOFs former big rivals used to have such a system but it was removed a few weeks ago because people didn't like it at all. Harsher statloss means huge PK packs with blue healers - if perma stat was to be introduced I wouldn't say that I couldn't see POWER working together with EQMS.

 

[Streets]

Not harsher statloss just enforced statloss or enforcing the current system.

Under the current rules you have a max of 2 days stat. The problem is people just throw that toon aside and play another one. By making it so you have to be loged in to that toon for the stat timer to count down you are forcing a choice "work off my 2 day stat" or "its not worth my time that carat er stays in stat loss" the player hum or herself determin his or her punishment.

This also tales a red out of the playing field and not able to zerg until his true 2 day penelties are over.

The red is Jailed in essence and his sentence is up to the owner of the toon

 

[K A Z]

Not harsher statloss just enforced statloss or enforcing the current system.

Under the current rules you have a max of 2 days stat. The problem is people just throw that toon aside and play another one. By making it so you have to be loged in to that toon for the stat timer to count down you are forcing a choice "work off my 2 day stat" or "its not worth my time that carat er stays in stat loss" the player hum or herself determin his or her punishment.

This also tales a red out of the playing field and not able to zerg until his true 2 day penelties are over.

The red is Jailed in essence and his sentence is up to the owner of the toon

I could still log onto another account, couldnt I? It'd be super hard to introduce such a system as most people are on changing IPs/are using VPNs to log into UOF. I can't see this working properly, tbh. I also don't think that it's in any way justified. A PVMer loses maybe 5-10 minutes of him farming when he gets killed (if hes not dumb), so why should a red be punished so hard ?

 

[TheFallen]

I don't I am getting cought up? The thing that keeps coming up is "if the penelties is harsher they pack will get bigger" if that's the case with no recall in dungeons wouldent it mean they would just do so in a pack? My idea is trying to reduce the ability to even make such packs

No. This would reduce packs.
Because a) no stat means you can fight and can die and it is Ok.
B) who wants to bring 10 guys through a dungeon to kill the one bard at the bottom?

 

[Streets]

I could still log onto another account, couldnt I? It'd be super hard to introduce such a system as most people are on changing IPs/are using VPNs to log into UOF. I can't see this working properly, tbh. I also don't think that it's in any way justified. A PVMer loses maybe 5-10 minutes of him farming when he gets killed (if hes not dumb), so why should a red be punished so hard ?

You could log into another account but the murderer wont be working off his penelties unless you multi accounting but that whole account t is locked then because it has to be loged on the red it is a puns him entry that's les lax than the one we have now but not pema stat

 

[Streets]

No. This would reduce packs.
Because a) no stat means you can fight and can die and it is Ok.
B) who wants to bring 10 guys through a dungeon to kill the one bard at the bottom?

I don't quite understand what you are saying here... not trolling it is probably my fault but could use further explanation