Wand Update

Wildboar

Wildboar

Master
Reds need to suck it up--blues die 2 or three times a day from reds. When 3 red archers gang bang, no one complains they just loss all their weapons and regs OR when 4 or five warriors and red mages run in and gank a tamer that is fine but god forbid a tamer kills a solo red or possibly 2. Most tamers aren't spec'ed to fight off a couple of reds, 2 reds working together can keep any and all spells disrupted if they are worth their salt so what is your problem?? If a tamer is caught by surprise or out in the open with something on his curser his chance of survival from a couple of reds are slim. So lets'** Cry Hugh Tears 'til reds are more overwhelming, reds have this idea that they are superior to all other players only because first they have a surprise advantage and they gang bang. A very few are really very highly skilled and aren't crying for more advantages.
 
J

jkg8787

Master
De Medici said:
Of course there are new players who have to learn how to pvp.
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New to server maybe. Not new to UO. If any actual new people are joining they are statistically insignificant.

And if your goal is to attract ACTUAL new people to a 20 year old video game, youre going to be disappointed.
 
Wildboar

Wildboar

Master
If 3 reds stealth on me it is my fault ------OK.
If 3 reds comein full speed ahead dropping explosion 1 sec apart it is my fault ----OK.
If a red hides at shadow deamons, skel dragon, or a dozen other places until someone is down a third then attacks "it the blues fault; hmm Ok."
 
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J

jkg8787

Master
Wildboar said:
If 3 reds stealth on me it is my fault ------OK.
If 3 reds comein full speed ahead dropping explosion 1 sec apart it is my fault ----OK.
If a red hides at shadow deamons, skel dragon, or a dozen other places until someone is down a third then attacks "it the blues fault; hmm Ok."
Click to expand...
yep
 
AreYouKidden

AreYouKidden

Grandmaster
jkg8787 said:
While I agree that 3rd party programs and the differences between them definitely create lots of issues I think the actual issue is skill-differential.

This is a sandbox MMO meaning that naturally higher skilled individuals get to interact with low-skilled individuals. There are more low-skilled than high-skilled so they have a bigger voice. They get upset at dying due to skill imbalance and then go on to advocate for changes on their behalf.

I'm struggling to think of ANY modern game that doesn't use some type of Ladder system to separate players into groupings based on skill which is a natural balancing effect in and of itself.

While I'm not asking for a ladder system and don't see how that could even put in, I bring this up to clarify my point. Lesser skilled players SHOULD die and balancing to the lowest common denominator to suit them is a disastrous idea.

Really I think the only solution is tough-love. A trial by fire. Newbs simply must be ground down and re-moulded. Unfortuneately what's more likely to happen is they just stop playing and leave.
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To be honest, I believe this is where consensual PvP comes into affect. If you have a system that is compelling enough, the majority of skilled PvP'rs will be playing in that system, leaving the rest of the field, the open world to PvP in, and slowly get better at it. This system will pull the majority of the reds off the field as well, as long as it's compelling. (**see below for ideas that may be compelling - trying not to derail a wand thread entirely)

It's ironic that we are looking at tweaking tools of the trade (wands, firehorns), when we really need a compelling consensual PvP system (Militias). Yes those tools need to be tweaked at some point, I advocate for more variety in our builds regularly, but they really need to focus on the one aspect that seemed to breath some life for a few days, because as it stands, the PvP'rs who would be playing in Militias, are either PK'n, or just taking a break - at which point they may not come back.

**To be compelling you have to appeal to the nature of PvP'rs, feed their egos. Seasonal Scoreboards, for guild & individuals that last 3 months, so it's always refreshed, resurrect statues in the winners honor at the hall of heroes, keep a historical record in and out of game, give them a unique item/wear-able, that they can flaunt for the rest of their days. You are talking 4 items a year if you are just doing #1 position, or 12 if you do top 3. You could even have some sort of guild custom banner, or unique to give away as well for the top guild. That's all on top of the regular faction like rewards, and perks that you are spending capture points to purchase.
 
J

jkg8787

Master
AreYouKidden said:
To be honest, I believe this is where consensual PvP comes into affect. If you have a system that is compelling enough, the majority of skilled PvP'rs will be playing in that system, leaving the rest of the field, the open world to PvP in, and slowly get better at it. This system will pull the majority of the reds off the field as well, as long as it's compelling. (**see below for ideas that may be compelling - trying not to derail a wand thread entirely)

It's ironic that we are looking at tweaking tools of the trade (wands, firehorns), when we really need a compelling consensual PvP system (Militias). Yes those tools need to be tweaked at some point, I advocate for more variety in our builds regularly, but they really need to focus on the one aspect that seemed to breath some life for a few days, because as it stands, the PvP'rs who would be playing in Militias, are either PK'n, or just taking a break - at which point they may not come back.

**To be compelling you have to appeal to the nature of PvP'rs, feed their egos. Seasonal Scoreboards, for guild & individuals that last 3 months, so it's always refreshed, resurrect statues in the winners honor at the hall of heroes, keep a historical record in and out of game, give them a unique item/wear-able, that they can flaunt for the rest of their days. You are talking 4 items a year if you are just doing #1 position, or 12 if you do top 3. You could even have some sort of guild custom banner, or unique to give away as well for the top guild. That's all on top of the regular faction like rewards, and perks that you are spending capture points to purchase.
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Agreed. A compelling-consensual-PvP-system would go a long way in addressing player skill imbalance sort of by "distracting" the PvPers with something to do. Obviously PKs would still exist and still be doing their thing, but the # of them would most likely be reduced.
 
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Lexington

Lexington

Grandmaster
PVP items...ugh! Wands, horns... what's next? Tweak the current weapon, spell, poison and pot damage... then add mount fatigue and won't have to keep adding new crap to kill players. wink, wink! These things really only get used by to top 1%ers anyways... and they sure as hell don't need the extra advantage to kill the rest of us.
 
M

Marley ll

Adept
The only thing dumbing the pvp down did was make people quit.

Last time they implemented wands they made them unusable to blues yet gave red factioners heal wands to use while fighting blues.

Implement things like morons then say they dont work.

Give them to everybody. Whats so hard about setting a g heal wand key?
Same as setting any other spell except you cant be disurpted and you can run while casting it....Whats the problem?
Wouldnt this help a blue get away from a dp dexxer in a dungeon?

If you plan on playing a mage you have to set around 30 spell hotkeys.
Are another 4 or 5 going to kill you?

If a group of experienced players run up on a group of your so called "new" players the "new" players are going to eat shit immediately regardless of whether wands are in the equation or not.

Strip the server of consensual pvp all together and act like its saving the blues in dungeons when in fact its doing the exact opposite because now instead of the few pvpers left going to pvp they just go pk a few newbs and log out after 15 minutes.

Sorry staff youre not doing a good job with pvp or anything pvp related right now.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is a brown noser or just a straight up *.
 
J

jkg8787

Master
Marley ll said:
The only thing dumbing the pvp down did was make people quit.

Last time they implemented wands they made them unusable to blues yet gave red factioners heal wands to use while fighting blues.

Implement things like morons then say they dont work.

Give them to everybody. Whats so hard about setting a g heal wand key?
Same as setting any other spell except you cant be disurpted and you can run while casting it....Whats the problem?
Wouldnt this help a blue get away from a dp dexxer in a dungeon?

If you plan on playing a mage you have to set around 30 spell hotkeys.
Are another 4 or 5 going to kill you?

If a group of experienced players run up on a group of your so called "new" players the "new" players are going to eat shit immediately regardless of whether wands are in the equation or not.

Strip the server of consensual pvp all together and act like its saving the blues in dungeons when in fact its doing the exact opposite because now instead of the few pvpers left going to pvp they just go pk a few newbs and log out after 15 minutes.

Sorry staff youre not doing a good job with pvp or anything pvp related right now.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is a brown noser or just a straight up *.
Click to expand...
Again, pretty much agreed 100%. Tone still leaves a bit to be desired but I can tell Marley is trying to reign it in. Lol.

Repeating myself here but I've been told that "the average player uses less than 10 hotkeys" and that "Non PvPers don't want wands because it just allows PvPers another tool to kill them".

Seems pathetic to me. It's essentially saying that a player with less than 10 keys set up, improper equipment and lack of skills should be able to survive against someone with 30-50 keys, proper equipment and actually knows what they are doing. The mindset just really doesn't make sense. Newbs are unwilling to set up keys/macros and unwilling to learn but then hold the PvP community hostage with their trash-play and bad mindset.

Why WOULDN'T "bad PvPers" want an item that allows them to heal themselves for 50hp, WHILE MOVING that costs zero mana? No clue other than what will be some dumb excuse like "they don't want to setup a hotkey and have to memorize that key". Damn certainly makes for a riveting PvP experience when balanced to lowest common denominator.

Don't know what to say. Keep repeating myself. Probably just gonna shut up and accept the fact PvP will have to be gimped for "the sake of the server's health".
 
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Silly Santa

Silly Santa

Grandmaster
Marley ll said:
The only thing dumbing the pvp down did was make people quit.

Last time they implemented wands they made them unusable to blues yet gave red factioners heal wands to use while fighting blues.

Implement things like morons then say they dont work.

Give them to everybody. Whats so hard about setting a g heal wand key?
Same as setting any other spell except you cant be disurpted and you can run while casting it....Whats the problem?
Wouldnt this help a blue get away from a dp dexxer in a dungeon?

If you plan on playing a mage you have to set around 30 spell hotkeys.
Are another 4 or 5 going to kill you?

If a group of experienced players run up on a group of your so called "new" players the "new" players are going to eat shit immediately regardless of whether wands are in the equation or not.

Strip the server of consensual pvp all together and act like its saving the blues in dungeons when in fact its doing the exact opposite because now instead of the few pvpers left going to pvp they just go pk a few newbs and log out after 15 minutes.

Sorry staff youre not doing a good job with pvp or anything pvp related right now.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is a brown noser or just a straight up *.
Click to expand...

Marley 4 pvp manager
 
AreYouKidden

AreYouKidden

Grandmaster
Marley ll said:
The only thing dumbing the pvp down did was make people quit.

Last time they implemented wands they made them unusable to blues yet gave red factioners heal wands to use while fighting blues.

Implement things like morons then say they dont work.

Give them to everybody. Whats so hard about setting a g heal wand key?
Same as setting any other spell except you cant be disurpted and you can run while casting it....Whats the problem?
Wouldnt this help a blue get away from a dp dexxer in a dungeon?

If you plan on playing a mage you have to set around 30 spell hotkeys.
Are another 4 or 5 going to kill you?

If a group of experienced players run up on a group of your so called "new" players the "new" players are going to eat shit immediately regardless of whether wands are in the equation or not.

Strip the server of consensual pvp all together and act like its saving the blues in dungeons when in fact its doing the exact opposite because now instead of the few pvpers left going to pvp they just go pk a few newbs and log out after 15 minutes.

Sorry staff youre not doing a good job with pvp or anything pvp related right now.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is a brown noser or just a straight up *.
Click to expand...

Nailed it on the head for me..

When you implement half thought out ideas, and drive topics to the extremes, then have to fix them because they didn't work right, you'd think you'd learn from it? It seems to be a remove first around here, instead of tweaking. Even if wands or firehorns were OP, leave them in for a few weeks as OP while you tweak them, as removing them just makes it harder to find the real balance.

I see it again and again, where they take things to the extremes. Defense talisman - people talked at length how to balance it so that it didn't affect PvP - and they overshot the mark and took it to where it was grief-able.

Then I'm hearing wand talk, where they are going to put an 8 or 10 second cooldown on it, tied to casting spells, which basically will make them virtually unusuable, just so they can say wands they are in the game, but why bother if you aren't making a real effort to make them balanced, and useable.. and honestly, isn't the easiest way to balance them to make them available for all players?

What this all says to me is that without someone who knows the PvP system inside and out calling the shots (PvP Manager where are you?), you aren't going to get any semblance of balance here, nor a system compelling enough to keep people playing. Militias breathed life for a short stint, and then there was nothing to do in the system, so it dies off. Months go by without an update, except rolling the cap to 30, instead of rolling out a proper gump to mark yourself active/unactive. We are thirsting for content in the PvP field - please put some focus on it, and get us there.
 
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