The "End the Docks Trading" Thread

[EmmaTudor]

I am 100% in favor of eliminating the docks as a safe banking area and by most on this server I would probably be considered a Trammy. All my characters are crafters or PvMers (although I am making a PvPer to try to learn that). Also I am without a doubt the worst PvPer on the server. Below is why I think the docks should be removed as a safe banking area.

The main problem with the docks is that building a reputation and establishing yourself as an honest trader has less of a benefit with 100% safe trading. This reduces the social penalty for people that are known for scamming or are generally disreputable. In the old days of UO I often remember not buying from someone purely based on their reputation because doing the trade would be too much work and require me to stay on my toes to avoid getting ripped off. With 100% safe banking/trading this fear is removed and the social consequences aren't as great.

Now if thieves are broken, I have never played a thief so have no clue, then they should be "fixed" regardless of whether or not the docks are removed.

While trades would be more inconvenient and I am sure more dangerous that is what we all claim to want by playing on a server without Trammel. Just like getting PKed is part of playing on a server without Trammel. This is even more skewed since the penalties for murder here are pretty care bear compared to the penalties that were in place on OSI (Trammel for murderers basically). To be clear I actually like the head turn in system and the danger PKs provide. I also "like" the danger thieves provide (I reserve to right to rage though).

Extremely well said.

 

[EmmaTudor]

I love how all of you guys keep playing the "tram" card, but are the worst players out there. You don't have the right to pull the "tram" card when you're absolutely trash at pvp. It just doesn't work. The GMs don't want the headache of this shit and I guarantee this thread will be locked soon also because they are probably tired of you guys beating a dead horse. This helps the server is ZERO ways.

Gore, the only one who seems to be raging about this is you. The rest of us are trying to have a solid debate into the positives and negatives of the "safe-zone" system. And as you can see from this thread, it certainly seems like the majority of individuals on the server oppose it. Finally, there is NO headache created by this for GMs whatsoever. Any appeal regarding being scammed should instantly be disregarded, and honestly, if people want to rage quit over losing items -- they probably aren't the type of player for this kind of server anyway.

 

[Bromista]

Not like anyone was going to pay me to find out anyway

You need to be on the tile next to someone to steal. There are several ways to separate yourself from someone while still being able to trade and access a secure container (and in one location, this is inside a bank). Combine this with a GM detect hidden alt and the right not to trade with someone if things get fishy and you're golden.

This is valid and there are several places you can trade like this.

I made dozens of trades like this on OSI. But I was also fifteen. I have better shit to do with my time than carefully set up transactions like this and I think that's a big reason why the docks are gonna stay put. I'm sure staff here is content to let us have conveniences like these in the interest of player retention without totally nerfing thieves.

Because without the docks they are gonna have to nerf the fuck out of thieves.

 

[iceman2kx]

I'm not even gonna bother to counter-argue this stale topic anymore when the only argument you have for the docks is " just because... TRAMMEL. ITS STUPID. TRAMMEL. YOU IS A TRAMMIE IF YOU LIKE THE DOCKKKKSSSSS "

I don't see how a spot to do a quick transaction instead of having to do the whole vendor thing and creating 5,000 extra vendors is looked so negatively upon.

What's next? Yall gonna cry that you want empty vendors marked out? I'm sure you will cry gallons of tears tell that's changed too. IMO coming to the threads and constantly crying over little things is trammy to me.


It's yall's game though, so change it how you think would positively effect the entire server. I have no problem with this.

 

[Karl Sagan]

I love how all of you guys keep playing the "tram" card, but are the worst players out there. You don't have the right to pull the "tram" card when you're absolutely trash at pvp. It just doesn't work. The GMs don't want the headache of this shit and I guarantee this thread will be locked soon also because they are probably tired of you guys beating a dead horse. This helps the server is ZERO ways.

I agree. No one should have an opinion regarding any topic unless they have dedicated thousands of hours to learning the intricacies of UO pvp, and thousands more playing with a small group of like minded people. Also they should have their head so far up their own ass that they can't help themselves from coming into thread after thread flying their **** shaped "xX 2 eLiT3 Xx" pvp flag in everyone's faces.

As to your actual points:

-GMs don't want the hassle. It's actually not that hard to tell people yes you can be stolen from.

-doesn't help the server. No way to really know. Maybe we could discuss it and come to a conclusion.

-we are all tarded and this thread will be locked soon. Piss off man this is a good discussion with a lot of people taking part.


E: given the choice between nerf thieves or keep docks I would say keep docks.

 

[Amsterdamaged]

I love how Gore jumps in every thread that has to do with changes and calls everyone bad. Just check this guys posting history. He think that he is some uber pvper that also speaks for the devs. Sory that we try to ruin your little trammel docks Gore.

 

[a burglar]

Was ended because people are too stupid to differentiate between an opinion and a fact. "This would be bad because thieves would ruin the server" - OPINION. "There are MULTIPLE BANKS AND CITIES IN UO TO TRADE IN" - FACT

I fail to see how some people's dumbass opinions matter SO much that we DRASTICALLY CHANGED AN ASPECT OF THE GAME. The FACTS ARE:

Thieves are/were a part of UO
If you sit at Brit Bank with valuables, it will probably get stolen
Their are plenty of other banks and areas to trade in
You can recall to 50% of the towns on UOF RIGHT NOW and see ZERO people
Taking away the safe trading area would force people to THINK before they traded

This server has done a lot right, but this was FLAT OUT wrong.

Oh, and please feel free to check my accounts, I do not, and have never, played a thief.

+1, but I do, have and always will play a thief !

 

[timewarp_again]

Remove docks . Shit is trammie.

 

[Struan]

Lots of risk vs reward comments on the forums.

Serious questions :

1) What is the risk part of risk/reward for town thieves?

Cause it seems like a lot of the same people who don't want town thieves nerfed, do want the docks removed. But...also seems like the docks were created because of town thieves...so I have to assume on some level the dev team agrees they are OP.

2)what kind of nerf would they do to balance town thieves?

Seriously. Cause all this talk about OP thieves has me making one. Who doesn't want to be OP.

 

[Karl Sagan]

Lots of risk vs reward comments on the forums.

Serious questions :

1) What is the risk part of risk/reward for town thieves?

Cause it seems like a lot of the same people who don't want town thieves nerfed, do want the docks removed. But...also seems like the docks were created because of town thieves...so I have to assume on some level the dev team agrees they are OP.

2)what kind of nerf would they do to balance town thieves?

Seriously. Cause all this talk about OP thieves has me making one. Who doesn't want to be OP.

The risk for a town thief is that they spend hours snooping people and find nothing. Or spend an hour snooping and see a taming SS but get guardwhacked. If people could be arsed to take 30 seconds before going afk with their precious itams in their pack the risk would go up more for thieves.

Town stealing is NOT where the money is made for a thief. They already got a HUGE nerf when they made NPCs call guards regardless of line of sight or walls.

When I steal in town it's usually because I'm bored or distracted and just want to dick around. Or when there's a handout that is stealable (Xmas bags). It's fine for honing your trade it figuring out te mechanics, but it's really not very profitable compared to just farming liches or something.

Good (rich) thieves make money at champ spawns and high end dungeons. But if you aren't careful you will just be killed on sight. Good prep and acting can go a long way.

I think any nerf to thieving would require multiple adjustments. Instant stealth is countered by hugely OP tracking.

Like I said I would prefer the docks be removed (or at least bank access removed) but I would rather keep the existing thief mechanics. They are huge fun in dungeons and idocs, and keep it interesting enough in town.

 

[Kavu]

I am 100% in favor of eliminating the docks as a safe banking area and by most on this server I would probably be considered a Trammy. All my characters are crafters or PvMers (although I am making a PvPer to try to learn that). Also I am without a doubt the worst PvPer on the server. Below is why I think the docks should be removed as a safe banking area.

The main problem with the docks is that building a reputation and establishing yourself as an honest trader has less of a benefit with 100% safe trading. This reduces the social penalty for people that are known for scamming or are generally disreputable. In the old days of UO I often remember not buying from someone purely based on their reputation because doing the trade would be too much work and require me to stay on my toes to avoid getting ripped off. With 100% safe banking/trading this fear is removed and the social consequences aren't as great.

Now if thieves are broken, I have never played a thief so have no clue, then they should be "fixed" regardless of whether or not the docks are removed.

While trades would be more inconvenient and I am sure more dangerous that is what we all claim to want by playing on a server without Trammel. Just like getting PKed is part of playing on a server without Trammel. This is even more skewed since the penalties for murder here are pretty care bear compared to the penalties that were in place on OSI (Trammel for murderers basically). To be clear I actually like the head turn in system and the danger PKs provide. I also "like" the danger thieves provide (I reserve to right to rage though).

*Claps*

 

[Struan]

Thanks Karl.

Ya what is the deal with Tracking. I have zero tracking skill but was able to track a GM hiding char the other day...and continuously track them, even after they ran off screen and hid again.

I never tried tracking before but either that was a bug or tracking is way OP.

 

[EmmaTudor]

I'm not even gonna bother to counter-argue this stale topic anymore when the only argument you have for the docks is " just because... TRAMMEL. ITS STUPID. TRAMMEL. YOU IS A TRAMMIE IF YOU LIKE THE DOCKKKKSSSSS "

I don't see how a spot to do a quick transaction instead of having to do the whole vendor thing and creating 5,000 extra vendors is looked so negatively upon.

What's next? Yall gonna cry that you want empty vendors marked out? I'm sure you will cry gallons of tears tell that's changed too. IMO coming to the threads and constantly crying over little things is trammy to me.


It's yall's game though, so change it how you think would positively effect the entire server. I have no problem with this.

Because unless the item is blessed, you should have a chance to lose your item in every transaction. That's what UO has always been about -- Risk vs Reward.

 

[Ashpool]

Thanks Karl.

Ya what is the deal with Tracking. I have zero tracking skill but was able to track a GM hiding char the other day...and continuously track them, even after they ran off screen and hid again.

I never tried tracking before but either that was a bug or tracking is way OP.

Does this shard use RunUO code? I know tracking is shit in RunUO.

 

[Karl Sagan]

Thanks Karl.

Ya what is the deal with Tracking. I have zero tracking skill but was able to track a GM hiding char the other day...and continuously track them, even after they ran off screen and hid again.

I never tried tracking before but either that was a bug or tracking is way OP.

Yup tracking is very effective at zero. At GM you can track people from several screens away. I actually like the way it works and it gives a good balance to the 'ZOMG OP' stealth/thieving rules. Plus it requires ZERO skill to negate a player with 180-200 points in hide/stealth.

I would much rather have two 'OP' templates which can cancel each other out (as long as the PLAYER makes the right choices) than two templates that are useless against anyone other than a noob.

Thieves are only OP vs people who don't know or care to protect themselves.

 

[Struan]

Ya true, seems handy for thieves, plus they deserve any violence they receive.

Seems too handy for everyone else who is just hiding.