Mining macro's ... Need a GM answer pls.

[rimmshot]

Ok , now all the rules i have read on the website and forums say ( I can use anything in UO steam and or razor as long as I am NOT AFK RESOURCE GATHERING ).

I have a guild mate that has set up a macro for mining and is NEVER AFK . Please let me repeat this .. He and I are NEVER afk while resource gathering ...( AKA : mining ). We have been checked up on ALOT of times and have never been AFK . Never have been " talked too " jailed , banned . NOTHING !!!


My guild mate tells me the last few times he has been check up on by a certain GM ( I will leave the name out of this for now ) . The GM tells him that he cant use the macro he has built .

Now let me explain this .. rules are rules , its there game and i understand that and will play by the rules they set in place . BUT as of right now the rules they have in place say that everything WE are doing is legal BUT yet only ONE of the GM'S that checks on him says he is not suppose to do it . SO to summarize this . What is the rule about razor , uo steam, afk gathering ????

Thank you for any answer by the GM'S . I truly am not bitching or complaining here , just trying to get clarification on the rules so we don't get in trouble .

 

[Shane]

Basically how it goes man, is we scan around, and if we appear, and tlak to you for awhile and you do not respond AT ALL- that is AFK for sure, even if you're technically "at your keyboard", you're definitely not looking at your screen every 30-60 seconds.

You cannot GATHER ANY RESOURCES AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD.

Now, i really don't expect people to manually click their axe, and click the floor or walls of a mine/dungeon to gain ingots etc. You can use scripts for Razor if you want, however if we appear, and your moving/mining, and you DO NOT answer us or respond to anything, or seem like your responses are not right at all for what we ask, you will be jailed. Also if your mining AFK from a house, that house will be removed as well.

If you are afk mining into your bank, your banks will be removed from all characters. We may not ban, but we will for sure make you start over economically.

Hope this clears some things up here.

You CAN Script mining (using razor, or steam), but you CANNOT do it away from the keyboard.

 

[rimmshot]

Thank u so much sir

 

[rimmshot]

Well ok .. Well once again I'm back here. This time the same guy got checked up on by the same person. He was told that staff was cracking down on script mining period. This thread was pointed out and after asking for clarification due to the mixed messages he got sucked into jail for a little chat with another staff member.

We were on mumble together and he is also my neighbor, so he asked me to come over and watch this as it went on because we've had a third staff member, or fourth if you count Shane's post in this thread, tell us that script mining was fine as long as you weren't afk.

They both proceed to tell him that he CANNOT do what he is doing now (which is script mining with razor while NOT AFK). He responded immediately when checked up on and he spoke and talked to him. Clearly not afk at all.

During the conversation they even said "You're not in trouble and did nothing wrong" but said you can't do that. This is VERY confusing.
He was even sent to the rules pages and didn't see anything other than there is no afk gathering. They wouldn't point out rule in question when asked...so here we are again.

Can I PLEASE get some clarification on this?
Thank you for your time again ... sorry this keeps coming up but we keep getting different answers.

 

[halygon]

I think Shane was pretty clear before. Obviously there are some staff members that are not on the same page as Shane. I would give those names to Shane and ask him to deal with it.

 

[SteelSexi]

I think you're over complicating this my friend.

It works like this and I honestly think is this simple... GM sees you mining for a bit, perhaps making the same patterns whatever it is, or perhaps just checks on you while you are mining period as there is a belief that scripted mining is being abused or whatever.

So this is the only important part...

He checks on you. BOOM! Every time I've been checked on while mining They blow up my head (no damage) and a GM appears usually a few seconds later...

HERE. If you run, move oddly (not a continued automated movement) or you say anything to them or something then they know immediately that you are within rules. You are mining but not afk and you are aware of whats going on.

If you don't respond within a timely manner, you're gonna be in "truddle".

Period.

I mine a LOT... I use very simply macros to repeat the mining process in a single spot basically until the vein is dry. Then I manually move and reset on a new vein, re-run my simple script with a key press until vein is dry again, rinse & repeat. I've never been in trouble or banned or jailed when checked up on.

 

[rimmshot]

HERE. If you run, move oddly (not a continued automated movement) or you say anything to them or something then they know immediately that you are within rules. You are mining but not afk and you are aware of whats going on.

If you don't respond within a timely manner, you're gonna be in "truddle".
...

I agree and im telling your that this WAS the case .. as soon as they showed up ( just like all the other times ) he responded .

 

[SteelSexi]

I agree and im telling your that this WAS the case .. as soon as they showed up ( just like all the other times ) he responded .

I see. I don't see the problem. Sounds like a miscommunication to me when you say a staff member told you that you can't use any scripts at all in Razor and mine while paying attention to the game (not afk)

I understand that you want to get clarity on this and you are certainly doing the right thing by asking for it I'd say. But if I had to guess, I'd guess it was a simply miscommunication and/or misunderstanding that is causing your confusion.

I mean, is some staff member really gonna come up here now and tell us that we must manually click our mouse 400 billion times over a four hour period of mining and that we can't use any simple razor scripts at all for mining, but razor scripts are okay with every other aspect of UO? That would make absolutely no sense at all, so that's why I think this is all just a misunderstanding. Just an educated guess though, I could be dead wrong, but I also would love to know if I am. ;-)

 

[rimmshot]

i really hope your right steel .

 

[halygon]

I see. I don't see the problem. Sounds like a miscommunication to me when you say a staff member told you that you can't use any scripts at all in Razor and mine while paying attention to the game (not afk)

Hey this happens and no one is perfect. Hell when Bryce was new he misinterpreted the rule about blocking players in your house to mean blocking players with items anywhere.

 

[rimmshot]

i agree here halygon ... I hope its just a miscommunication . Trust me it happens ALOT at my work

 

[Elvera]

I use this macro for the last 15 years while mining;

"Click on options
Click on Macro options
Click Add
Set F1 as Last Object and Last Target"

 

[Duckworth]

I was told the same thing yesterday.

I mean, is some staff member really gonna come up here now and tell us that we must manually click our mouse 400 billion times over a four hour period of mining and that we can't use any simple razor scripts at all for mining, but razor scripts are okay with every other aspect of UO? That would make absolutely no sense at all

I was told this too. He recommended I set up a last target hotkey, and click the shovels manually.


Here is my math: (I’ll address iron mining since is what I do, and since we all know there is no real competitive market for colored ore in large quantities)


The most advanced mining script will yield these results (I've asked around, and compared to my mining data)


1 hour of mining – 2100 iron ore

2100 iron ore equals (which is not always the case) 4200 iron ingots

4200 iron ingots at 9gp per is 37.800gp


So you’re ATTENDED mining 37.800gp worth of ingots per hour. We do it and we know the risks, 20 secs of not looking at your screen and you’re screwed. Is it worth it? To some of us, it is. Should it be illegal? You tell me.


I’ve stopped mining since I encountered the GM, until this gets some clarification.


Keep in mind I’ve gotten checked on countless times and I always respond in less than 3 secs.

 

[SteelSexi]

1 hour of mining – 2100 iron ore

2100 iron ore equals (which is not always the case) 4200 iron ingots

4200 iron ingots at 9gp per is 37.800gp

I like how you calculate this, and it's accurate... but only for iron ore.

If you have enough mining skill to mostly be getting double the iron ingots as you get ore...
then you are likely also mining colored ore...
And if you are mining an 'ore vein book' let's assume you are mining the ever popular valorite (psst: Valor-Rite Vendors - had to get in a free ad for my vendors )
And if you are getting 2100 iron ore, you're likely also getting 2000 valorite ore as well (or some other colored ore, perhaps a mix)

Now the valorite ore isn't going to double like the iron ore, but in this case, 2,000 valorite ingots at a safe value of 60 each = 120k

120k worth of valorite ingots + 37.8k of iron ingots = 157,800 per hour. assuming you are mining valorite ore veins.

So, what if you are for some nutty reason mining dull copper veins only? well 2000 dc ingots at 12 each (again a safe value) is 24,000.
24k gold in dc ingots + 37,800 gold in iron ingots - 61,800 gold per hour.

Given this, we can pretty safely assume that mining.. whether an ore vein book or a mix of ores - then you are likely mining and making between 60k and 150k per hour.

Mining IS a lucrative business. If you don't agree, then let's ask Rimmshot again how much he makes in a single week just selling ingots alone. - In all fairness, I can understand the GM's checking for scripting making mining too automated and potentially adding millions of gold and resources into the UO;F economy with a bare minimum of effort or participation in the game by a player behind the keyboard.

Again, as I have said multiple times, I could make far more money then I make running all my vendors at my Valor-Rite Vendors by simply just doing nothing but mining and selling all the ingots instead. I'd make FAR more money, but I find mining far too boring personally. However... I'm just saying that if I could mine 12 hours a day with very minimal participation and minimal effort, then hmmm, ya know?? Again another point for the GM's checking up on us all. ^5 to the GMs and their trying to make sure their server and game doesn't get ruined by automation and an economy full of "too easily gained" ingots and gold.

- In fairness to every player however, I think we need a crystal clear definition on exactly what kinda script usage is legal vs what is against the rules. I think we all know AFK macro'ing is against the rules. - But what about scripting advanced enough to where we could sayyyy take a hot bath for an hour and just watch a notebook sitting on our toilet and never touch a key? As long as we are paying attention to the game and can respond to a GM.. are we cool and safe? THAT is the question that needs to be answered here.

 

[halygon]

I stopped mining a long time ago.., not worth it to me.

That said, I do have full mining location books at my shop for you guys.

 

[Duckworth]

There is no way you can get 2000 valorite ore per hour. Any colored ore for that matter.

And then again, I wouldn't know, since I only mine iron ore.

 

[Elvera]

well, i stopped mining too..but for sure i am going to try to mine Valor-Rite ores for an hour and see what i get..

Free ad for ya @SteelSexi

 

[SteelSexi]

Hehe, yeh I dunno about 2,000 val ore per hour either.. but my point was that if you're high enough skilled to be getting double ore ingots as ore most of the time, then you're gonna get a LOT of colored ore as well are "just iron ore" and it's likely going to be way more then the 37k per hour made mining.

Even if we play a very safe estimate made of 65k per hour in ingots after costs of regs and pk loss etc... (and I do think this is a safe estimate)..if you are running a script where you really only have to half ass watch for a GM checking on you... and you run that "advanced automated script" for just 4 hours per day... that's 260k made per day, times say 5 days a week is 1.3 million per week all from a process requiring little and almost no effort on your part.

I think the values I've given in this are pretty safe and you can see it could be very lucrative, especially if you have mining locations marked where their is almost no risk of mobs or pks. (Thinking about it, I don't think you can mine anywhere near 2k iron ore or 2k colored ore in an hour either, but I will check exactly how much ore I can get in a hour here soon and report back)

The main point however, like I said above is that given this to understand the reasons why the GMs are so busy checking on us miners.. we ALL need to be given complete clarity as far as what is against the rules vs what is acceptable in the scripting. We already know we can't AFK. But what about the scripting itself? If we click a hot key every 30 seconds to minute is that okay? What if we really only have to click the mouse or a hot key once every 10 minutes a average? What if it's down to every hour on average? We need more specific clarity obviously on what is allowed scripting wise I think.

 

[rimmshot]

one thing you need to think about steel is this ... when you are mining you have to SELL the ingots to make that money .. I will assure you that don't sell anywhere CLOSE to all the ingots i mine .

 

[SteelSexi]

New
one thing you need to think about steel is this ... when you are mining you have to SELL the ingots to make that money .. I will assure you that don't sell anywhere CLOSE to all the ingots i mine .

Fair enough rimmshot. But you are still getting use of them in some manner. If you aren't selling them, then you are have them made into slayers, armor, and weapons.. either to sell or for your own use. I mean they don't just vanish if you don't sell them, and if you are using them all that you don't sell, they would still have a value to you at whatever you price them at, agreed? Regardless of if you mine 20k iron ingots and sell them or you don't succeed in selling them today anyhow, they still have a "value" and they don't just magically erode into thin air.