Fix Herding Please

S

Sarphus

Journeyman
On OSI servers an animal will follow the Shepherd indefinitely if the shepherd targets himself as the target to move to. On UOF the animal will come up to the shepherd and then stop following once it reaches the shepherd. Also, herded animal movement speed is REAL slow on this server. It's roughly at pet movement rate on OSI Servers.

I know a lot of people are thinking "who cares" so I'll explain.

A stealth shepherd can work together with animal tamers to relocate desireable tameables so they are easier to tame. For example, if you find a really nice dragon that's in the middle of a bunch of other dragons it is a LOT easier to have a stealth shepherd herd away the undesireables or move the desireable dragon to a desireable location for taming.

All this said, there are a couple abuses to the OSI version of the herding skill.

1. There is no limit to how many things can be following a shepherd. This allows people to train 100's of animals from the woods into town. It rarely happens and it's funny when it does but it can be done. It also allows people to grief dungeon entrances like destard 1 pretty easily with a stealth tamer.

2. Monsters can't push through herded animals and they won't attack them. This means an archer/shepherd can become immune to all melee-only monsters.

So in short, I would recommend making it so a shepherd can herd up to 10 animals to follow him indefinitely at roughly pet speed. Herded animals would not follow through a recall or gate and they would move at roughly pet speed. If the animals attack the shepherd it would break the herd/follow (stealth is necessary to herd aggressives). Herding an 11th animal would make the first one you herded stop following (queue).
 
halygon

halygon

Grandmaster
And before anyone says nerf herding they are only griefers.. just remember that "All Come" or "All Guard" prevents any herding of your own pets.

I like this idea and I think that improvements to herding are great. I am not sure you can herd a dragon though.
 
Kraden

Kraden

Grandmaster
Sarphus said:
On OSI servers an animal will follow the Shepherd indefinitely if the shepherd targets himself as the target to move to. On UOF the animal will come up to the shepherd and then stop following once it reaches the shepherd. Also, herded animal movement speed is REAL slow on this server. It's roughly at pet movement rate on OSI Servers.

I know a lot of people are thinking "who cares" so I'll explain.

A stealth shepherd can work together with animal tamers to relocate desireable tameables so they are easier to tame. For example, if you find a really nice dragon that's in the middle of a bunch of other dragons it is a LOT easier to have a stealth shepherd herd away the undesireables or move the desireable dragon to a desireable location for taming.

All this said, there are a couple abuses to the OSI version of the herding skill.

1. There is no limit to how many things can be following a shepherd. This allows people to train 100's of animals from the woods into town. It rarely happens and it's funny when it does but it can be done. It also allows people to grief dungeon entrances like destard 1 pretty easily with a stealth tamer.

2. Monsters can't push through herded animals and they won't attack them. This means an archer/shepherd can become immune to all melee-only monsters.

So in short, I would recommend making it so a shepherd can herd up to 10 animals to follow him indefinitely at roughly pet speed. Herded animals would not follow through a recall or gate and they would move at roughly pet speed. If the animals attack the shepherd it would break the herd/follow (stealth is necessary to herd aggressives). Herding an 11th animal would make the first one you herded stop following (queue).
Click to expand...

Yes please what he said

;) see ya in the cave later
 
Garet Jax

Garet Jax

Grandmaster
Yes I think herding should def be fixed.
I remember back in the day having a ton of fun with a stealth herder, many lols were had(probably only by me tho).
 
S

Sarphus

Journeyman
halygon said:
And before anyone says nerf herding they are only griefers.. just remember that "All Come" or "All Guard" prevents any herding of your own pets.

I like this idea and I think that improvements to herding are great. I am not sure you can herd a dragon though.
Click to expand...

I can mostly speak to herding from an OSI shard perspective because my stealth herder isn't done yet. Herding is difficulty based like taming but it operates on the use item timer instead of the skill timer. In short, you have to upgrade the creature you're herding as your skill increases and you can herd anything that is a valid target for taming.

You can't herd pets, NPCs or non-tameable monsters (and rightly so IMO).

I've herded all of the dragons on lvl 1 destard on an OSI server using a stealth shepherd. That's one of the reasons why I mentioned the lack of a max herd as being exploitable. Herding masses of creatures that are good at detecting you is a pretty precarious thing. You get revealed and die sometimes and you're already on foot for stealth so it can get a little hairy :)

edit:
herdng while stealthed reveals you on this server. that leads me to believe that the ppl running the sever explicitly don't like herding and don't want it to be used. In other words, I'm asking for something they explicitly disabled... not going to happen.
 
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steve-o

steve-o

Grandmaster
Sarphus said:
edit:
herdng while stealthed reveals you on this server. that leads me to believe that the ppl running the sever explicitly don't like herding and don't want it to be used. In other words, I'm asking for something they explicitly disabled... not going to happen.
Click to expand...

loooong time ago people were abusing this in destard, that's why they made you reveal on herding :) it was funny but annoying

they would take all dragons to the entrance and ... BOOOM! :D
 
Kraden

Kraden

Grandmaster
steve-o said:
loooong time ago people were abusing this in destard, that's why they made you reveal on herding :) it was funny but annoying

they would take all dragons to the entrance and ... BOOOM! :D
Click to expand...

That is really heart breaking cause I was so pumped to save 1 mil for a char token to make that exact template. Good thing we changed it though because people didn't like it.........
 
S

Sarphus

Journeyman
steve-o said:
loooong time ago people were abusing this in destard, that's why they made you reveal on herding :) it was funny but annoying

they would take all dragons to the entrance and ... BOOOM! :D
Click to expand...

I'm familiar with that abuse and agree there should be a fix in place for that. I think the skill can be made useful without making it easily abuseable

I think the ideal way for the skill to work would be as follows:
1. Creatures herded to follow will follow at pet speed
2. Herd size limit of 10 creatures while visible
3. Herd size limit of 1 creature while stealthed (all but 1 stop following if you become invisible)
4. Creatures herded to follow continue to follow until herded off the shepherd

I think those rules would allow a stealth shepherd to assist tamers while preventing abuses such as herding all of destard to the entrance. If it is still a problem, they could make it so herded creatures won't go within some distance from the entrance to a dungeon.
 
Firecrest

Firecrest

Grandmaster
I have to say I started herding last night just because. And then I noticed the non compliance of the animal. But it is funny to see this post today I agree fix thus up a little and cooking!
 
MZ3K

MZ3K

Grandmaster
steve-o said:
loooong time ago people were abusing this in destard, that's why they made you reveal on herding :) it was funny but annoying

they would take all dragons to the entrance and ... BOOOM! :D
Click to expand...

Why didn't this happen on OSI too?

(Or did it?)
 
L

Lokki

Novice
Isn't this server a non trammeled server? Yet herding copped a nerf by becoming revealed when herding? How come the cries were listened to?
As for the herding dragons to Destard entrance issue, surely another idea could have been implemented. Seems harsh to nerf some skills yet allow others, it is like the nostalgic value of the game [not many new to UO will play it] is limited to a certain few. Bring back stealth herders! Destard has an area at entrance where dragons etc get popped back anyway.
 
R

Rikket_The_Rogue

Grandmaster
Making herding useful would expand the builds people can play, so I'm all for this.

Just make a shard rule that blocking an entrance with herded animals/monsters gets some sort of punishment (like resetting the Herding skill to zero. ;) )

Making it difficulty based would go well with the punishment stated. People will always be total cunts for no reason; had a guy train liches to the bard table for a half hour or so yesterday when my character was still young status.
He literally just waited till I rezed via wisp guide and did it again. Aside from wasting both our time he got nothing out of it, and I see Herding mechanics no differently. Someone is going to be a *, but the skill should be made better regardless.
 
MZ3K

MZ3K

Grandmaster
Lokki said:
Isn't this server a non trammeled server? Yet herding copped a nerf by becoming revealed when herding? How come the cries were listened to?
As for the herding dragons to Destard entrance issue, surely another idea could have been implemented. Seems harsh to nerf some skills yet allow others, it is like the nostalgic value of the game [not many new to UO will play it] is limited to a certain few. Bring back stealth herders! Destard has an area at entrance where dragons etc get popped back anyway.
Click to expand...

Steath herding is pretty much exclusively a grief template. Griefers aren't good for the shard population. I don't think there should be stealth herders. Still herding needs the other fixes suggested in this thread.
 
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