Cheating

[kbruder]

Hello Forum Family!

I have been noticing the enlightening and constructive discussions on the topics of Explo and stealing Scripts on the forums as of late. Indeed these are conflicts that must be resolved post haste.

I would like to simply suggest that we change the verbiage with in said discussion from "cheating" to "exploitation"

Unless of course those practices are explicitly banned on UO:F.

My point is this:

what separates the men from the boys on UO:F, (especially not being an item and equipment based server) is the both rigorous preparation and the knowledge and foresight to use EVERY possible factor to one's advantage. In other words, on the highest tier of PvP combat, the game is all about exploitation and deception. I can live with that.

When it comes to scripting, it presents a new division, between the honest and committed UO gamer, and those individuals with a keen understanding of the true power of third party software along with experience in the actual RunUO C# scripts and their mechanics.

Needless to say, this creates a cat and mouse scenario between those astute power players who live and breathe UO and the devs, to maintain a balance that everyone can agree upon.

So when I see people on the forum complaining about "cheaters", IMO their otherwise valid argument comes across as hyperbole.

 

[Geriatric]

lets see if i can find an appropriate analogy
a soccer player takes a dive and receives a penalty in his favour for the dive, because the referee didn't see exactly what happened

while it seems to be accepted as part of the game realistically it's just bad sportsmanship

 

[kbruder]

lets see if i can find an appropriate analogy
a soccer player takes a dive and receives a penalty in his favour for the dive, because the referee didn't see exactly what happened

while it seems to be accepted as part of the game realistically it's just bad sportsmanship

agreed! to expand upon the same analogy, cheating would be bribing the ref. which can rarely be proven.

 

[wreckognize]

funny thing is tho that when cheaters die they lose their composure pretty good
makes it kinda even itself out
plus, most people who see someone cheating/speeding etc will greif the fuck outta that person, making them not wanna log on unless they've got at least 1 friend online.

Seems like more of a crutch than a blessing to be speeding these days, also since 99% of people get busted when they try

 

[Sarphus]

Completely automating a task that the operator is physically incapable of doing manually is cheating. Allowing people to cheat like this removes the skill-based aspect of the game and makes the game a script vs script adventure. Back in the day I was a very skilled theif. I stopped playing a thief when all other thieves I saw were scripted because it became pointless.
Here are some examples of cheating through automation:
Using a stealing script to snag PS from people as you walk past them
Using a disarm/stealing script to snag the weapon out of someone's hand
using an automated potion script
Using a harvesting bot to script harvesting while AFK
Auto-cure scripts
All of these things break the game and should not be allowed because they put parts of the game on auto-pilot. They allow a player who does not have skills to perform as if they had them.
Exploitation on the other hand is a specific form of cheating. It's exploting a flaw in the game to get an unfair advantage over other players. So basically, you're saying you'd prefer if people didn't call these forms of cheating "cheating" but rather specify that they are a specific form of cheating (which they are not).

 

[halygon]

Completely automating a task that the operator is physically incapable of doing manually is cheating. Allowing people to cheat like this removes the skill-based aspect of the game and makes the game a script vs script adventure. Back in the day I was a very skilled theif. I stopped playing a thief when all other thieves I saw were scripted because it became pointless.
Here are some examples of cheating through automation:
Using a stealing script to snag PS from people as you walk past them
Using a disarm/stealing script to snag the weapon out of someone's hand
using an automated potion script
Using a harvesting bot to script harvesting while AFK
Auto-cure scripts
All of these things break the game and should not be allowed because they put parts of the game on auto-pilot. They allow a player who does not have skills to perform as if they had them.
Exploitation on the other hand is a specific form of cheating. It's exploting a flaw in the game to get an unfair advantage over other players. So basically, you're saying you'd prefer if people didn't call these forms of cheating "cheating" but rather specify that they are a specific form of cheating (which they are not).

I do not see any items here that cannot be done by "the operator" or that they are "physically incapable of doing manually". Are these things pathetic -- well yes, but it doesn't fit your definition of cheating.

Then again, maybe when you say "doing manually" you really mean MANUALLY. In that case, anytime you drink a potion with a hotkey, use your mouse-wheel for a hotkey, or use resource counters (at the top of your screen) -- you are cheating.

 

[K A Z]

Completely automating a task that the operator is physically incapable of doing manually is cheating. Allowing people to cheat like this removes the skill-based aspect of the game and makes the game a script vs script adventure. Back in the day I was a very skilled theif. I stopped playing a thief when all other thieves I saw were scripted because it became pointless.
Here are some examples of cheating through automation:
Using a stealing script to snag PS from people as you walk past them
Using a disarm/stealing script to snag the weapon out of someone's hand
using an automated potion script
Using a harvesting bot to script harvesting while AFK
Auto-cure scripts
All of these things break the game and should not be allowed because they put parts of the game on auto-pilot. They allow a player who does not have skills to perform as if they had them.
Exploitation on the other hand is a specific form of cheating. It's exploting a flaw in the game to get an unfair advantage over other players. So basically, you're saying you'd prefer if people didn't call these forms of cheating "cheating" but rather specify that they are a specific form of cheating (which they are not).

some of those things are banable, others are just not practical at all. Cheating in UO has never ever ever been better than manually playing the game. never.

 

[saQ DOTA]

The stealing Powerscroll one pisses me off the most.

 

[Sarphus]

I do not see any items here that cannot be done by "the operator" or that they are "physically incapable of doing manually". Are these things pathetic -- well yes, but it doesn't fit your definition of cheating.

Then again, maybe when you say "doing manually" you really mean MANUALLY. In that case, anytime you drink a potion with a hotkey, use your mouse-wheel for a hotkey, or use resource counters (at the top of your screen) -- you are cheating.

I realize you can make hotkeys to steal last target and disarm steal. A script can completely automate it.

I don't think any thief can steal a PS from a pack while running by a target as quickly as a script can. I can snoop/steal a PS while passing a target but I can't do it as fast as a script can.

Programs work in ms. People don't.

What's funny to me is that I've seen you repeatedly make arguments that scripts will screw you up in pvp. That is only true if there are bugs in your scripts. Back in the day on OSI I wrote a lot of scripts that fully automated things and absolutely gave me an advantage. I chose not to do that here because it's lame and takes a lot of the fun out of the game for me. I'd rather win on merit than automate and claim that I won.

 

[halygon]

What's funny to me is that I've seen you repeatedly make arguments that scripts will screw you up in pvp. That is only true if there are bugs in your scripts. Back in the day on OSI I wrote a lot of scripts that fully automated things and absolutely gave me an advantage. I chose not to do that here because it's lame and takes a lot of the fun out of the game for me. I'd rather win on merit than automate and claim that I won.

My argument has been and always will be that automated macros are for the inexperienced pvpers. There is a big difference between an automated macro and one that assists you in the task you are trying to do.

That said, I don't see any reason to take big action upon automation unless a particular person is blatantly abusing it. Then they should be banned. I think instead of taking drastic measure that affect everyone (like banning Razor or UOSteam), mechanics can be changed to force players to use skills/actions a certain way. Empower the people as opposed to restricting them.

 

[saQ DOTA]

I realize you can make hotkeys to steal last target and disarm steal. A script can completely automate it.

I don't think any thief can steal a PS from a pack while running by a target as quickly as a script can. I can snoop/steal a PS while passing a target but I can't do it as fast as a script can.

Programs work in ms. People don't.

What's funny to me is that I've seen you repeatedly make arguments that scripts will screw you up in pvp. That is only true if there are bugs in your scripts. Back in the day on OSI I wrote a lot of scripts that fully automated things and absolutely gave me an advantage. I chose not to do that here because it's lame and takes a lot of the fun out of the game for me. I'd rather win on merit than automate and claim that I won.

Hey Sarphus, I'm not sure if you do champ spawns much but it's happened to me before where I got one and took of running immediately and have had it stolen mid stride, while mounted.

 

[Stormy]

I realize you can make hotkeys to steal last target and disarm steal. A script can completely automate it.

I don't think any thief can steal a PS from a pack while running by a target as quickly as a script can. I can snoop/steal a PS while passing a target but I can't do it as fast as a script can.

Programs work in ms. People don't.

What's funny to me is that I've seen you repeatedly make arguments that scripts will screw you up in pvp. That is only true if there are bugs in your scripts. Back in the day on OSI I wrote a lot of scripts that fully automated things and absolutely gave me an advantage. I chose not to do that here because it's lame and takes a lot of the fun out of the game for me. I'd rather win on merit than automate and claim that I won.

You make some very valid points but it all boils down to one thing. In the absence of server side enforcement , such as Punkbuster, or the like, client side scripting & exploitation will continue & prevail. Sad but true. Nuff Said.

 

[NoXXeD]

so much to say but so lazy to type it all out

 

[K A Z]

.kazscripton

 

[Yagyu]

UO has too much scripting and macroing built in. If you want a game that requires skill, and no 3rd party program gives people huge advantage, dont play UO...lots of games that actually require some skill out there! Even some where you can buy gold with your atm card. UO is Candyland.

 

[CVegas]

You make some very valid points but it all boils down to one thing. In the absence of server side enforcement , such as Punkbuster, or the like, client side scripting & exploitation will continue & prevail. Sad but true. Nuff Said.

Shit dude, that takes me back. Counter-Strike used it to catch wall-hackers and such. I knew it sounded familiar, lol.

 

[K A Z]

UO has too much scripting and macroing built in. If you want a game that requires skill, and no 3rd party program gives people huge advantage, dont play UO...lots of games that actually require some skill out there! Even some where you can buy gold with your atm card. UO is Candyland.

dats why i rented a srvr in china and am now running ma full-automated botz from there

 

[wreckognize]

dats why i rented a srvr in china and am now running ma full-automated botz from there

Thats legal but can you at least stop fake liking all of @Karl Sagan 's material it's getting umm.. pretty obvious...

(...I guess that always was your style tho huh)

 

[K A Z]

Thats legal but can you at least stop fake liking all of @Karl Sagan 's material it's getting umm.. pretty obvious...

(...I guess that always was your style tho huh)

wasnt me sryz.