The State of UOF (PKs and purple pots)

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Winstonian

Grandmaster
Disclaimer: I am a nobody on UOF.

Is this the way UOF is intended to be? Is this the end game design?

Right now, it seems that a few mechanics dilute the aspects of this server that could make it great.

PKs:

PKs need to NEVER go away. They are a crucial element to UO gameplay. That being said, it's my opinion that the practically non-existent consequence for murder makes PKing a low risk, moderately high reward griefing mechanism instead of another option to open world PvP. Increasing the severity for PKing would lessen the number of trash PKers, forcing those players to find PvP elsewhere (guilds, factions, O/C, duel pits). That's a good thing.

Question 1: is this the way PKs are intended? Or is this something that the staff feels should be tweaked?

Purple pots:

It's not that I think pot throwing should be remove from the game completely - I don't - but I don't think purple pots should be a mandatory aspect of PvP, and I don't think they should exist without a counter. PvP now consists of purple pots + 'something else', and they're thrown constantly. Tweaking the way purple pots interact with other abilities would encourage different builds and add variety to PvP, all great things.

Question 2: is this the way purple pots are intended? Is the staff willing to consider any adjustments to the way purple pots interact with other skills, like parrying, to provide more template variance?

If these areas are working as intended, and if no changes are being considered, that's fine. I won't play - it's not the style of UO i remember and enjoy - but a lot of others (obviously) still will.
 

K A Z

Grandmaster
If these areas are working as intended, and if no changes are being considered, that's fine. I won't play - it's not the style of UO i remember and enjoy - but a lot of others (obviously) still will.

PROBABLY this here. There's a reason this shard is as populated, and there's also a reason why "vanilla old skool" shardz dont attract any playerbase at all.
 

Darkarna

Grandmaster
Disclaimer: I am a nobody on UOF.

Is this the way UOF is intended to be? Is this the end game design?

Right now, it seems that a few mechanics dilute the aspects of this server that could make it great.

PKs:

PKs need to NEVER go away. They are a crucial element to UO gameplay. That being said, it's my opinion that the practically non-existent consequence for murder makes PKing a low risk, moderately high reward griefing mechanism instead of another option to open world PvP. Increasing the severity for PKing would lessen the number of trash PKers, forcing those players to find PvP elsewhere (guilds, factions, O/C, duel pits). That's a good thing.

Question 1: is this the way PKs are intended? Or is this something that the staff feels should be tweaked?

Purple pots:

It's not that I think pot throwing should be remove from the game completely - I don't - but I don't think purple pots should be a mandatory aspect of PvP, and I don't think they should exist without a counter. PvP now consists of purple pots + 'something else', and they're thrown constantly. Tweaking the way purple pots interact with other abilities would encourage different builds and add variety to PvP, all great things.

Question 2: is this the way purple pots are intended? Is the staff willing to consider any adjustments to the way purple pots interact with other skills, like parrying, to provide more template variance?

If these areas are working as intended, and if no changes are being considered, that's fine. I won't play - it's not the style of UO i remember and enjoy - but a lot of others (obviously) still will.

This conversation has been stretched so thinly over the months or years that any post relating to such a topic will possibly be met with criticism. Those that follow and play with the above styles will argue till the cows come home that it is good for business, good for activity and wonderful for the PVP elements of UO while on the other hand, the few which disagree with how things are, will likely add their 22 cents and create a shit storm in said thread.

The ultimate misconception surrounding UOForever is that players want to see the server as a true reflection of Ultima Onlines former self, we know this is impossible because of individual requirements and more importantly, the longevity of the server itself. Any change related to mechanics will obviously be met with scepticism from certain players but will also be approved by others.

Change one area, upset a group of people who threaten to leave, change another and you have the same response. Free UO servers remind me of the infamous game of Russian Roulette, pull the trigger enough times and you will eventually have an extra orifice in your head.

EDIT : The truth is, the ultimate power rests with the players and not with the staff.
 

Woodsman

Expert
Tons of people feel the same way about purple pots. Only problem is most of them are not vocal about it on the forums and most people that will reply to this thread are the people that love the way purple pots work ....No offence

giphy.gif
 

Winstonian

Grandmaster
PROBABLY this here. There's a reason this shard is as populated, and there's also a reason why "vanilla old skool" shardz dont attract any playerbase at all.
I'm not asking for 'vanilla old skool' UO. Is this shard really populated because of their PvP mechanics? Or because it's well ran, releases quality content and has strong PvM? I think the answer there is obvious.
 

Winstonian

Grandmaster
This conversation has been stretched so thinly over the months or years that any post relating to such a topic will possibly be met with criticism. Those that follow and play with the above styles will argue till the cows come home that it is good for business, good for activity and wonderful for the PVP elements of UO while on the other hand, the few which disagree with how things are, will likely add their 22 cents and create a shit storm in said thread.

The ultimate misconception surrounding UOForever is that players want to see the server as a true reflection of Ultima Onlines former self, we know this is impossible because of individual requirements and more importantly, the longevity of the server itself. Any change related to mechanics will obviously be met with scepticism from certain players but will also be approved by others.

Change one area, upset a group of people who threaten to leave, change another and you have the same response. Free UO servers remind me of the infamous game of Russian Roulette, pull the trigger enough times and you will eventually have an extra orifice in your head.

EDIT : The truth is, the ultimate power rests with the players and not with the staff.
Interesting.

From what I read on the forums now, and what I heard while I played, many think that PvP is a shell of what it could be. Sure, the 'hardcore', guilded PvPers will continue to PvP, but I'll argue that the majority of the population avoids factions/OC/duel pits. They, instead, PvM, and - in turn - PvPers form PK gank squads and roam dungeons to get their PvP.

Instead of the mechanics pushing the masses away from structured PvP, they should be drawn to it. This is UO, damnit.
 

Darkarna

Grandmaster
Interesting.

From what I read on the forums now, and what I heard while I played, many think that PvP is a shell of what it could be. Sure, the 'hardcore', guilded PvPers will continue to PvP, but I'll argue that the majority of the population avoids factions/OC/duel pits. They, instead, PvM, and - in turn - PvPers form PK gank squads and roam dungeons to get their PvP.

Instead of the mechanics pushing the masses away from structured PvP, they should be drawn to it. This is UO, damnit.

And of course you are right, well you are right from what I have read but definitely, you will be wrong to someone else. The Player Killer discussion has been talked about on here countless times, when proposed fixes are revealed then literally there are threats of exodus. It really is a no win situation and understandably, this is why there are limited 'fixes' to the things you have mentioned in your original post.

Good luck to you on the potential storm which might be peeking over the horizon, don't forget your umbrella and rain coat.
 

drasked

Grandmaster
Disclaimer: I am a nobody on UOF.

Is this the way UOF is intended to be? Is this the end game design?

Right now, it seems that a few mechanics dilute the aspects of this server that could make it great.

PKs:

PKs need to NEVER go away. They are a crucial element to UO gameplay. That being said, it's my opinion that the practically non-existent consequence for murder makes PKing a low risk, moderately high reward griefing mechanism instead of another option to open world PvP. Increasing the severity for PKing would lessen the number of trash PKers, forcing those players to find PvP elsewhere (guilds, factions, O/C, duel pits). That's a good thing.

Question 1: is this the way PKs are intended? Or is this something that the staff feels should be tweaked?

Purple pots:

It's not that I think pot throwing should be remove from the game completely - I don't - but I don't think purple pots should be a mandatory aspect of PvP, and I don't think they should exist without a counter. PvP now consists of purple pots + 'something else', and they're thrown constantly. Tweaking the way purple pots interact with other abilities would encourage different builds and add variety to PvP, all great things.

Question 2: is this the way purple pots are intended? Is the staff willing to consider any adjustments to the way purple pots interact with other skills, like parrying, to provide more template variance?

If these areas are working as intended, and if no changes are being considered, that's fine. I won't play - it's not the style of UO i remember and enjoy - but a lot of others (obviously) still will.

You're not really highlighting any specific problems or offer any solutions.
 

Ludwig

Grandmaster
I refuse to pvp mainly because of purple potions. Unfortunately, with Razor/Steam/Sallos, there's no going back. Also, UOF isn't a retro server and that's a big reason why it succeeds.

UO pvp is just terrible. No getting around it.
 

Winstonian

Grandmaster
You're not really highlighting any specific problems or offer any solutions.
I think I highlighted specific problems. More importantly, I asked two questions. The answer to those questions tells me everything I need to know.

I've made countless suggestion threads in the past, many getting a lot of positive feedback. But, it's pointless to make suggestions if the staff doesn't think anything is wrong. Which is why I made this thread.
 

K A Z

Grandmaster
I'm not asking for 'vanilla old skool' UO. Is this shard really populated because of their PvP mechanics? Or because it's well ran, releases quality content and has strong PvM? I think the answer there is obvious.

PvPers are obviously here because of the game mechanics. Why would they change the PVP mechanics to appeal to those who have not even tried to adapt/learn to love the current system? Makes no sense.. I'm not a fan of meta pets either, but do you see me saying stuff like "I won't even try to PVM because of metas" anywhere?

All in all, I'm pretty sure that this is a problem that can't be resolved. There is a reason for explopots (and it's been explained a dozen times, cba to do it again) and PVP in 2016 without them would not work. Unfortunately, we can't turn back the time and get back to where everyone only has 60 resisting spells.
 

Winstonian

Grandmaster
PvPers are obviously here because of the game mechanics. Why would they change the PVP mechanics to appeal to those who have not even tried to adapt/learn to love the current system? Makes no sense.. I'm not a fan of meta pets either, but do you see me saying stuff like "I won't even try to PVM because of metas" anywhere?

All in all, I'm pretty sure that this is a problem that can't be resolved. There is a reason for explopots (and it's been explained a dozen times, cba to do it again) and PVP in 2016 without them would not work. Unfortunately, we can't turn back the time and get back to where everyone only has 60 resisting spells.
What? Who even wants that? What are you talking about?

The only reason for expl pot spam is that running on this shard is an issue. Which is a bad excuse, considering 1) expl pot spammers throw pots constantly, not just while the other player runs away, and 2) you could just fix running instead of completely changing PvP.

I don't even care if expl pot spam continues to exist... I just want another mechanic to be created to counter it. Parrying, for example, could nullify the damage. Something. It shouldn't exist without a counter.

Note: PvPers play here because of the PvP mechanics?! Ha! No. Most of the PvPers despise Tamer PvP (which is adaptation), and want it nerfed. It's not that the PvP mechanics are great, but that this is the only viable UO server, and a very good server at that.
 
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K A Z

Grandmaster
What? Who even wants that? What are you talking about?

The only reason for expl pot spam is that running on this shard is an issue. Which is a bad excuse, considering 1) expl pot spammers throw pots constantly, not just while the other player runs away, and 2) you could just fix running instead of completely changing PvP.

I don't even care if expl pot spam continues to exist... I just want another mechanic to be created to counter it. Parrying, for example, could nullify the damage. Something. It shouldn't exist without a counter.

Note: PvPers play here because of the PvP mechanics?! Ha! No. Most of the PvPers despise Tamer PvP (which is adaptation), and want it nerfed. It's not that the PvP mechanics are great, but that this is the only viable UO server, and a very good server at that.

How you ever going to kill anyone 1v1 without explosion potions? Have you actively tried to PVP on an UOR Freeshard? With todays automation, better ping, and better setup you _can't_ kill people 1v1 without using explosion potions - hell, you can't even kill kids on a Mage 1v1 that has NO Alchemy. There is also a counter to Alchemy, and it's Healing. Very easy to just keep on running, and you'll easily heal all the explotion potion damage!

There is hardly and "tamer pvp" left, as they got rid of stun tamers lately... And after all the changes that were pushed through by people who know UO PVP, the system we got right now is pretty good ! Can't really get UOR to be any better.
 

Winstonian

Grandmaster
How you ever going to kill anyone 1v1 without explosion potions? Have you actively tried to PVP on an UOR Freeshard? With todays automation, better ping, and better setup you _can't_ kill people 1v1 without using explosion potions - hell, you can't even kill kids on a Mage 1v1 that has NO Alchemy. There is also a counter to Alchemy, and it's Healing. Very easy to just keep on running, and you'll easily heal all the explotion potion damage!

There is hardly and "tamer pvp" left, as they got rid of stun tamers lately... And after all the changes that were pushed through by people who know UO PVP, the system we got right now is pretty good ! Can't really get UOR to be any better.
In other words: expl pots are mandatory in PvP. Got it. If that's not going to change, it's not the game for me. Which is fine: there are plenty of games out there. I'll check back in periodically and see how things adjust over time.
 

K A Z

Grandmaster
In other words: expl pots are mandatory in PvP. Got it. If that's not going to change, it's not the game for me. Which is fine: there are plenty of games out there. I'll check back in periodically and see how things adjust over time.

Well, what would be your suggestion on how to change this? It's rather easy to just say "I won't play like this", and it's also very unfair. I guess that we should be sorry that this is an UOR Server, with UOR mechanics, and that there can be no PVP without explosion potions (nobody would die ever).
 

drasked

Grandmaster
In other words: expl pots are mandatory in PvP. Got it. If that's not going to change, it's not the game for me. Which is fine: there are plenty of games out there. I'll check back in periodically and see how things adjust over time.

Why you hate expo pot so much?
 

Winstonian

Grandmaster
Well, what would be your suggestion on how to change this? It's rather easy to just say "I won't play like this", and it's also very unfair. I guess that we should be sorry that this is an UOR Server, with UOR mechanics, and that there can be no PVP without explosion potions (nobody would die ever).
I've made countless suggestions in the past. I'll make some here. This was never intended as a suggestion thread, but to see if some of these mechanics would ever be tinkered with.

It's my opinion that any player who attacks another player (outside of factions) cannot offscreen for a short period of time. (Example: 30 seconds.)

It's my opinion that the Alchemy skill should be required for expl pots to deal damage.

It's my opinion that Parrying should nullify the damage from expl pots.

It's my opinion that, if a PK dies in a dungeon, they have an instant 2 day account lock (for only that account).

It's my opinion that some of the irrelevant or useless spells should be tinkered with to provide some more variety (and damage). For example, one spell does increased damage against leather or lesser armor.

Those are just a few off of the top of my head.
 

K A Z

Grandmaster
I've made countless suggestions in the past. I'll make some here. This was never intended as a suggestion thread, but to see if some of these mechanics would ever be tinkered with.

It's my opinion that any player who attacks another player (outside of factions) cannot offscreen for a short period of time. (Example: 30 seconds.)

It's my opinion that the Alchemy skill should be required for expl pots to deal damage.

It's my opinion that Parrying should nullify the damage from expl pots.

It's my opinion that, if a PK dies in a dungeon, they have an instant 2 day account lock (for only that account).

It's my opinion that some of the irrelevant or useless spells should be tinkered with to provide some more variety (and damage). For example, one spell does increased damage against leather or lesser armor.

Those are just a few off of the top of my head.


so basically you wanna change UO as a whole.. forget it. That shit would take _ages_ to balance and would probably kill the server. People want to play what theyve played for the last 15 years - no half arsed attempts to "fix" the game. I guess that this Shard is just not for you - unfortunately.
 
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