Spell damage and why it's too low

C

chad

Master
It has been brought up before and most PvPers can agree that damage is lower than it should be. @Adam asked for some numbers from uoforever compared to UOF, so here they are. Numbers with a * next to them were resisted. I forgot to record the resists for magic arrow though.

uoforever numbers:
4-8-5-4-4-6-12-4-4-10-7-6-4-4-4-7-10-8-6-4-4-5-6-5-3-7-5-9-4-4 (Magic Arrow)
28-30-26-28-27-28-20*-16*-26-30-29-28-29-27-31-28-25-31-30-29-26-24*-26-29-29-32-28-25-31-28 (E-bolt)
10*-16-15-17-10*-10*-17-13*-14-13*-10*-20-11*-23-10*-12*-11*-19-10*-10*-18-19-17-19-16-20-19-21-19-10* (Lightning)

UOF numbers:
4-5-3-4-1-5-4-1-1-1-1-5-4-1-4-1-5-4-5-1-5-4-5-4-4-1-4-5-1-1-4-4 (Magic Arrow)
30-29-29-27-25-16*-30-15*-25-18*-28-29-27-28-30-18*-27-28-18*-15*-15*-27-18*-24-14*-30-28-29-28-25-24 (E-bolt)
15-17-17-18-10*-11*-16-17-15-17-18-19-16-11*-16-9*-18-9-16-17-19-17-19-10*-10*-18-10*-18-17-9*-16-9*-17-10* (Lightning)

We can see that magic arrow is drastically low in comparison.
E-Bolt and lightning seem more or less on par. They're definitely not the culprits for why syncs seem to be so weak. Although, they could probably use the most minor of tweakings.


So I got to thinking, what in the world could it be? Then I realized that explosion is fucking donkey sack and needs to be changed to mimic E-bolt damage.

26-21*-20-24*-26-23*-24*-28-28-20-19*-25-27-31-20-27-25*-30-21-29-26*-21-24-32-25-23-21*-30-21-22*-30-28-26 (Explosion)

You can see by these numbers that even on non-resists, explosion can hit for as low as 20 damage.


Conclusion: Fix explosion and magic arrow. Perhaps tweak how often higher level circles are resisted. It's nearly 3x as often on 6th circle spells on UOF . Generally, the lower circle the spell, the more easily it is resisted. It seems to be a static number, regardless of the level of the spell. If not that, then perhaps just a slightly lower chance to resist overall.

(I didn't check things like harm, fireball, fs. Ain't no one got time for that)
 
lollo

lollo

Grandmaster
eppy said:
Magic arrow damage was higher at one time I believe and people were just casting poison and holding down a magic arrow macro in 5x. Why in earth would you want that to happen?
Click to expand...

Because it's entirely possible to cure through it because of magic arrow's dmg delay? just fake cure disrupt self and cure at the right time

Anyways, fuck magic arrow, give us better explo damage and less resists on higher circles plz
 
GluttonySDS

GluttonySDS

Grandmaster
I think for the majority of the PVPers, the real change needs to be less resisting of level 6 and 7's and up the damage on explode.

It's extremely frustrating to 2 man synch someone and know if they str potted, you have a 10% chance of killing them.
 
C

chad

Master
eppy said:
Magic arrow damage was higher at one time I believe and people were just casting poison and holding down a magic arrow macro in 5x. Why in earth would you want that to happen?
Click to expand...

Pit PvP(fake pvp) should not take precedent over field PvP. That being said, you have to be really bad to die to someone "holding down" a magic arrow macro. We're not trying to reinvent the wheel here, this is a proven system that has been working for years. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. uoforever was a shit show, but they did PvP properly.
 
kurtis

kurtis

Grandmaster
That is a pretty small sample size but it does give some insights. It would have been nice to have the uoforever explosion numbers to compare.

Here's a summary analysis:

uoforever E-bolts:
  • 30 samples
  • 3 resists (10%)
  • 20 average dmg for resisted
  • 28.29 average dmg for non-resisted
  • 27.46 average dmg for all samples resisted or non-resisted
UOF E-bolts:
  • 31 samples
  • 9 resists (29%)
  • 16.33 average dmg for resisted
  • 27.59 average dmg for non-resisted
  • 24.32 average dmg for all samples resisted or non-resisted
UOF Explosion:
  • 33 samples
  • 9 resists (27%)
  • 22.57 average dmg for resisted
  • 25.75 average dmg for non-resisted
  • 24.94 average dmg for all samples resisted or non-resisted

The biggest discrepancy between the two shards appears to be the amount of spells resisted and how much dmg a resisted spell does. For non-resisted spells, UOF still appears to do slightly less dmg.

The small sample size hurts the analysis of the resisted numbers the most. For example, there's only 3 uoforever resisted ebolts to average.

Yes, I'm a math nerd.
 
C

chad

Master
Thanks for making it look nice, Kurtis. All of my houses are long gone on uoforever, so I did the test with what was left in a characters backpack. Also, doing 100+ per spell is fairly time consuming. I didn't test uoforever explosions, but I'm 100% sure it has the same damage formula as energy bolts.
 
manolo

manolo

Adept
I have equivalent data for sample sizes of 100 on UOF:

EB avg 24.31, non-resisted 27.49 (73%), resisted 15.70 (27%)
Explosion avg 25.36, non-resisted 27.69 (60%), resisted 21.96 (40%)
FS avg 34.16, non-resisted 39.54 (68%), resisted 22.72 (32%)

Additionally I noted that there seems to be a large gap between the possible resisted (highest 19) and non-resisted (lowest 24) EB damage values whereas there is no such gap in explosion damages.
 
?

^_^

Grandmaster
I have seen the discussion in discord about same topic recently, seems even after all these years we still have this inconsistency in dmg/resist for pvp/pvm aspect of UOF ^_^ @eppy
 
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