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*New PK (Murderer) Changes, and other updates

Discussion in 'News' started by Shane, Oct 7, 2015.

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  1. GimpCent

    GimpCent Well-Known Member

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    GimpCent, PimpCent, HeavenCent, Gimpus Maxius
    I agree but is it fair to there in turn reward blues. PvMing straight PvMing mmakes vastly more gold than anything we get. It's not like we find our prey with full sacks and more often then not they are able to recall out.

    With no bolas and the ability to recall out because my screen even logs due to how clients are updated. I am confused to why everyone is acting like its so horrible.

    There are plenty of spawns you can use in rotation and I have spoke to fact repeatly that I was able to make my first char in Shame and not get pked once. I did this as a brand new player after farming enough gold at Brit gy. It wasn't as hard as anyone is making it seem just no one wants to work for anything.

    Of course if you stay at a one spawn that is popular a pk will come, duh. Your runebook should be full of spawns in which you can recall in kill a decent amount of monsters with a medium respond and you run the book rotation. Everyone is just simply lazy and wants Shane to make the world safe.

    The PvM in Ultima Online is a means to a end. No one claims PvM in Ultima Online is good even. It's dated and it hasn't aged well at all.


    A much bigger issue is meta pets both for pve balance and pvp balance. But no one wants to deal with that topic let alone talk about it because we all abuse them.
     
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  2. Sadistica

    Sadistica New Member

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    I'm new here in particular but a veteran UO player, so I guess I could say I have some experience in toxic behavior overall. I read most of the comments people have written and it's definitely a lot of food for thought. My concern would be: Are the changes being made in an effort to bring back PvM centric players that feel discouraged? If so, is it to maintain a peak player base or is that also working in conjunction with wanting to recruit and maintain players that are more willing to donate/server upkeep, etc? I think everyone understands that you folks provide a service that costs money and those willing to help do so-- knowing they help out the others, as well. BUT, one thing, like all things, nothing in life is permanent. Not trying to sound like a jackass, just the inevitably of entropy. Whatever your peak player base was at a certain point, more often than not (for free servers in particular), that number will wane. I don't think any amount of micro adjustments will push people one way or the other. Even if people are pissed off, most people will see it through and give it a shot (grace period to test new ideas).

    I do however agree that stat loss doesn't seem like a long term fix and will just create more work in the long run. It didn't work before. Granted, entirely different server and expectations versus the original OSI servers. However, after thinking about different options for awhile, even the seemingly good ideas have potentially unforseen consequences that will annoy someone. The only thing I could really come up with - would be to focus on creating content that engages the vigilante/toxic Pks, that either makes them a target for potential rewards or rallies the community to actively reinforce the etiquette ideals you strive towards. Being a blue, PvM player - was always risky, that's why blue spawning guilds always had scores of members to combat the more adept PKs. Without some kind of major overhaul that changes how everyone perceives UO to be, there has to be a way to rally the PvMers to insulate and help each other. Like a mentor system that offers incentive for blues to communicate and team up, even if they aren't guild members? I think in terms of tackling bad behavior, offering appropiate incentive versus punishing the whole could be a better idea.

    I also read someone had mentioned the staff/admins, having been diligent intially but not having enough moderators/resources at this point. I think if enough people are irritated by the harassing PKs, collectively they could help to budget bringing on another person whose sole job is to investigate extreme reports/harassment/malicious behavior. And just make examples out of known offenders, give them the opportunity to take in all the information and then enforce harsher punishment for repeat offenses. Aka potential ban.

    My opinion is colored by the fact that I played Ultima for.. 11ish years? as a PK/red guild/raiders, but personally, I also actively helped new members and didn't pick on people unncessarily. I have been watching a handful of youtube videos people have posted of UO Forever and I will say a handful of them just appear to be roaming gank squads. That's not even a challenge. You shouldn't have to force people to be a PvPer and a decent human, but alas, it's the internet.

    I only just discovered UO Forever today/have no experience with you guys, but just from reading all the comments - there are definitely a lot of ideas that could be developed and explored further before action is taken against reds in general. Totally not trying to undermine anyone, or their ideas, but toxic people breed more toxic behavior and influence people, you kinda gotta prioritize addressing how to nip that in the bud without it ruining it for everyone. PvM exists as a compontent of the game that directly influences PvP, handicap or enable one and it breaks the balance. If there are still large portions of people who prefer the game for PvM and townie objectives, finding a way to safely partner them up with reds in like a hosted/sanctioned event could be a beneficial opportunity to take both sides out of their comfort zone and get to know the other half. idk. Just brainstorming.

    If I spoke out of turn and have no idea what I'm talking about, I apologize, I'm playing catch up in the span of an evening. <3 And... I have a lot of free time. :eek:
     
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  3. Cack

    Cack Well-Known Member

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    Cack, Commando(dfi), Tolaok Nor(dfi), super obese man, order sixty six
    Maybe a red protection/uber like system where a red/multiple reds protect/escort pvmers from other reds.
    Pros-protection, less crying threads, pvmers allowed to play the way they want, pvm directly linked to pvp, more rewards to be earned
    Cons- potential for abuse, trammiish, reds might get bored and kill said protectees, red "downtime", escortees might try and kill said red(s)
    Potential rewards- title "protector of the innocent", less skill loss, less shame time, x amount of counts being insta burned, etc.
     
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  4. Belge

    Belge Well-Known Member

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    Why can't there be some small change rather than re-inventing the wheel, perhaps a slight boost to protection spell duration. There is always going to be loopholes and ways to beat the system when trying to create a whole new complicated system. can't we come up with some small boosts/nerfs without having to invent a whole new game?

    I honestly bet, most of the people complaining about PKs probably don't know how protection spell works and never use it. Its rare you actually can't escape with protection/recall.

    Lets think simple solutions.. is what i wish we would consider.
     
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  5. Streets

    Streets Well-Known Member

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    I gave this a re evaluation re read the posts rethought my own experiences. Maybe I am just unlucky I don't know. But what i know is my experiences where not what are described here.

    Putting any personal feelings aside I have come to a conclusion that is not far from my original.

    I am still not pro trammel or anti red, but even in first person shooters when you are killed there is a respawn timer. There has to be a penelty for death and a system in place.

    Contrary to what what anyone says there is money to be made with minimal effort in some cases. The penelty for blue is loosing your loot. I have lost 10s of thousands in gold, treasure map items, arrows magic weapons etc. Sure part of my problem is my build being a solo archer but then again this is a mmo"RPG" so I shouldn't need a fps or rts or Dota type mentality or play style nor should i have to speak in character.

    I understand a red wants to pvp but in the end not everyone wants to die every time they step out of town. Yes pvp will happen but it sho I lent "have to happen"

    Agree or disagree but we are at tipping point. If you don't see it maybe you are busy doing guild vs guild or another play style but blues do see it.

    With the proposed changes things can be tweaked. If things are to harsh and there are not as many reds they can be dialed back. Even a count shame can be changed from not initiating on blues to maybe just no recalls or entering gates for x hours on the account.

    People saying they won't play their red any more. Maybe that's kinda the idea, to rethink what you are doing. The real hard core reds may stay but the little guy that might not be sure if it's worth it, this may help him decide. Once things balance out we can re evaluate where we are.

    We won't know how things pan out until it happens and you truly can't say you don't like something unless you try it.
     
  6. Streets

    Streets Well-Known Member

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    I am not opposed to giving reds more choices either. Beyond stat loss or shame. What if there where 8 choices 1 for each virtue? That would fit in with the game. I have some ideas...

    What if a red could buy his freedom back (bail) based on his short and long counts, everyone that has been pked in the past x hours is entered into a lot for the pot of all reds that bought their freedom (minus a partial gold sink)?

    Spirituality: if a murderer chooses this option he can only be rezed at the chaos shrine. Players can NOT rez this player for x hours

    more ideas to go till we have 8, 1 for each virtue more choice for the reds yet maintaining a punishment.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2015
  7. K A Z

    K A Z Well-Known Member

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    UO is a game one should not overcomplicate. I still do not see the red problem on this server, either. If anything true players (also in packs) are a dying breed.
     
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  8. Streets

    Streets Well-Known Member

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    I agree last idea was way over complicated but still disagree about reds ;)
     
  9. Belge

    Belge Well-Known Member

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    Theres barely anyone playing these hours.. what are you complaining about? lol
     
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  10. K A Z

    K A Z Well-Known Member

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    where are the big red groups then? The only red group active during off-hours are the japanese OoOooO PKs, and they are barely a problem as they behave very very well. At this point I couldn't even imagine playing a PK hunter as it would be super boring to scan all Dungeons just to find ... _none_. The "red problem" is an imagined one - in reality there are less PKs on UOF than there have ever been. Unfortunately, our playerbase has changed though - and unfortunately Shane listens to those who cry the most these days. None of you would have had a chance back when we had 112 korea police owning nerds 24/7 with over 20 zerglings.
     
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  11. Streets

    Streets Well-Known Member

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    Look I'm going to make this my last post because no matter what I say some people will not think this though open minded. It's not my shard a dress the issues (not just pk'ing ) or don't I don't care at this point. If I am not happy I'll find something else. If you disagree with me you may leave and go somewhere else who knows? But your not gonna be able to please everyone so do what ya got to do.

    I don't get the crying comment not once did I get upset over anything but meh
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2015
  12. aIck

    aIck Well-Known Member

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    I don't see point in the BH system tbh, we already have the Valor board and we were promised you can redeem prizes with Valor points at some point.

    What happened to that?
     
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  13. Lexington

    Lexington Well-Known Member

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    I agree %100 with the don't over complicate. The only issue there was with reds was the # that were in factions. Factions promotes group fighting, as it should. What happened was... when there wasn't any orange fighting a lot of those red groups would turn on the innocent. All you had to do was remove murders from factions or make it so difficult they'd rather play orange. That way your not affecting the original PK play style. As history has shown... over complicating a system will not create longevity.
     
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  14. K A Z

    K A Z Well-Known Member

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    getting reds into factions was an attempt to get em away from dungeon PKing.. removing em from factions is not going to help anyting. its like saying add O/C
     
  15. Lexington

    Lexington Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we want reds out of dungeons that would be boring.... it was / is the red zerg faction groups that were the problem.
     
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  16. Darkarna

    Darkarna Well-Known Member

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    I think most people miss the point, the issue is the general attitude acting out towards victims which has caused changes and potentially more changes. Drop the toxicity, use a little common sense when PKing and none of these changes would have appeared in the first place. Growing up helps also..
     
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  17. Tard the Paladin

    Tard the Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Tard the Paladin
    Most reds have blue PvM'ers. EQMS does RDA's and champs on occasion. There is a misconception that reds do nothing but shit on other players when in fact reds usually have a more dynamic game play style than others. The majority of reds play on reds because its their end game choice after having done all the PvM stuff there is to do. Its usually not accurate to say that reds need to do something besides PvP. We do.

    This is a sandbox mmo that utilizes PvP rather than advanced monster AI to keep the suspense alive. At some point, farmers are going to have to try to respond. A Felucca shard isn't really a place where the response, "but we PvM not PvP", should be considered an excuse. Catering to that crowd will never work until full out Trammel is given to them. Then they will get bored and leave. Maybe we need to find some way to incentive and nudge these players to try PvP. I bet most would enjoy it if they were shown the basics. There's a learning curve which I think causes some players to write PvP off. Some simply don't want to and I understand that as long as they realize what a Felucca shard entails.

    The complaints about zergs is tired and worn. Larger guilds are more fun and will keep players around longer if they have guildies they can consistently work with to have fun. The majority of guilds out there have a handful of members and I think that's so silly. I see guilds that would probably do better if they consolidated. PCH and MIA could be a noteworthy force if they teamed up. TBA and Trin might actually succeed at a champ if they brought their hundreds of numbers to do Oaks or something.

    The community would be better off if larger guilds were around instead of random squads. Overly complicating UOF game mechanics to accommodate ineffective play styles is not a long term success strategy.

    The BH system will do little if blues don't try to PvP - which I predict they wont.

    PvP is part of the game as is PvM. You don't have to have a statue at the docks or have the highest Punkte score to PvP. However, to play this sandbox and scour the dungeons for the best rewards then, yes, you should be required to PvP at some points. Breaking out of the random squad guild mentality and actually forming some decent sized guilds will reap great benefits for blues. Its also simply more fun for PvM or PvP!

    I hope it doesn't sound like I'm hating on blues. My main point is to just give PvP a chance, you'll probably enjoy it immensely! Also, start forming some good sized guilds so you have friends that are always on and can do what you want to achieve in game!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2015
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  18. Lord_Puffy

    Lord_Puffy Well-Known Member

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    Lord Puffy
    Has there been any timeframe of when these changes will be put in?
     
  19. Streets

    Streets Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it sounded blue hating hopefully just like I don't sound like I red hate. I really don't I'm just debating from a blue poi t of view on this topic.

    That said I totally get that alot of the reds have done it all and this is their end game play style I really do! Hell I can't wait till I am there as well but the problem is most people that get murdered are just trying to get to that point them selves. I am sure, just as all of us, you where pked when doing your content back in the day?

    But here is where the problem lies imagine being the very 1st person on the shard. There are no pks you can fly though the content. Then you want to pvp. You kill the nubs but eventually they get there as well. And they want to join in the pvp action... this cycle continues to this day and there are more and more pks. The longer the shard is alive the more and more pks there can be. Bow that new blue has it harder than anyone prior to him. It's kinda like when the rich keep getting more rich and the poor are getting left behind. In uo they try to keep somewhat of a balance by gold sinks and such. But how do you balance experienced pvpers from just toppling blues then? That's what this is really all about.

    PS @Tard the Paladin hate you now for drawing me back into the conversation but your post was well thought out and fair so I wanted back in lol :)
     
  20. Capt Cid

    Capt Cid Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="Streets, post: 494685, member: 12251"
    I understand a red wants to pvp but in the end not everyone wants to die every time they step out of town. Yes pvp will happen but it sho I lent "have to happen"
    [/QUOTE]
    There is no way you really feel like you will be pked everytime you take one step out of town. This sounds like you wait on the Brit bridge scared to take the last step.. I just think the examples people are using are pretty unrealistic. Streets I just used your post as an example, there are many.. Nothing personal.
     
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