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*New PK (Murderer) Changes, and other updates

Discussion in 'News' started by Shane, Oct 7, 2015.

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  1. Streets

    Streets Well-Known Member

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    Retracted

    Reds need no more encentive or rewards.
     
  2. Streets

    Streets Well-Known Member

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    Glimp you keep pointing out stat loss but you don't need to choose the statloss option just pick shame. Would you feel better if they took out statloss option and just made you take shame? Stat loss is there just for an option.

    Some people have stacks on end of skill scrolls and can just eat them and totally bypass the statloss as well. With a wiped out short term count you go right back to playing your evil little ways.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2015
  3. Hydro

    Hydro Well-Known Member

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    Hydroo
    one thing i want clarifyed is when your first head is turned in and you get "wanted" do you receive statloss like it does currently?
     
  4. Capt Cid

    Capt Cid Well-Known Member

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    Jus looking at jumping back in on UOF. Looks like some big changes adding drama here. I hope the trammies know that making it so easy for them to pvm, will bring value of everything down.... Make the whole account affected by the shamed status is ridiculous. Where you at halygon, with some insight that makes sense from the staff?
     
    4 people like this.
  5. Lexington

    Lexington Well-Known Member

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    A reward for being a PK.......... Its the ultimate pvp endgame WTF does it need a reward for? FYI... the play style is it's own reward.
     
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  6. aIck

    aIck Well-Known Member

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    Logic and reasoning end where trammy tears begin.
     
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  7. GimpCent

    GimpCent Well-Known Member

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    GimpCent, PimpCent, HeavenCent, Gimpus Maxius
    Reminder of the game play mechanics at its core.

    This idea is far from logically sound. Adding it will mark a rather big misdirection. Simply adding the option of perma stat loss expresses a misunderstanding of what condones a good idea and a bad idea based off history lessons.

    You shouldn't limit someones ability to play and create player interactions. This is just the lazy way to do it and in doing so doesn't even fix the problem seeks to instead we have pages of people pointing out it in fact creates new ones.

    Yet even then you have people cheerleading what is a broken system of flawed punishment no matter what. They want rewarded for pvp more than pvpers and they think thats fair as well. The Obama generation of handout beggers are here as well, great!

    This is quite frankly bullshit and I can't stress enough that this idea wasn't put together because it was a good idea but only because the systems are already in place within game. The reason they are in the game is because they ended up ruining it for a lot of us.

    This crap ruined Ultma Online that is not even debatable but I am here waiting for someone to try.....


    The reality of a debate means people need to show up and debate; this includes staff members most importantly as it was their idea. Silence is one of the hardest arguments those in power give us to refute, not only here but in real life as well.

    @Adam @Shane your personal opinions clearly matter more than anyone in this debate and such should be expressed. We should be able to get further insight from you and so maybe can reach a better understanding but your silence is just allowing peasants to fight and divide amidst ourselves. It's cowardly way of handling such a monumental change in UoForever's direction. This isn't some small change in terms of raw game play and game interactions.

    This is the difference between me logging or not many days. This is the difference in recruiting new pvpers here. Perma stat loss really? I don't care if its just a option. It's the best worst option of punishment in the history of gaming. At least hardcore mode you could be proud about but you can't be a badass macroing up your skills every time your broken meta pet system kills us.

    This changes a lot and the fact that it was debated in private and released to us in such a broken expoliotable form further hints at its future game playing robbing mechanics. One should tread lightly but a lot of pvpers won't play on a server that gives rape as a option. By rape I mean skill loss :( I am directly 100% included in that as it marks a misdirection in game design.

    @halygon @Blair

    As I said before skill loss has never worked and is disrespectfully to the past to threaten it on us in the future. It should never be a option at all ever because its never worked ever never ever not one single time but somehow here we are against in 2015 nearly 2016 and its creeping back. It's creeping back at a time when we see a resurgence in pvp titles from Warlords of Dearnor to Crowfall even in games like DayZ and H1Z1.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2015
    2 people like this.
  8. Belge

    Belge Well-Known Member

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    I feel its all getting too complicated... for something I've never seen a problem with. Speaking from a pvmer...
     
    7 people like this.
  9. ZombiCespedas Evil Curry

    ZombiCespedas Evil Curry Well-Known Member

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    Yoenis Cespedas
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    Really it's not broken

    2 day stat is more then fair how it is now (and I had to get use to that)

    I come from 98 style uo where if you are red
    Your red and you can't come in town

    Ultima is about playing a role

    And with the new rules whatever they are


    I give up being a red
    Took all the fun out of being a pk

    I would stay red if everything stayed the same with current system
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Streets

    Streets Well-Known Member

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    But isn't this what kinda happens when a blue is pked? You totally limit that player and forced him to interact.

    Not nit picking just figured I would make 1 last post seeing this was suposidly to be closed last night and I can totally see it getting nasty here real soon
     
  11. GimpCent

    GimpCent Well-Known Member

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    Kinda but the limit is very short and at the same time improves the overall economy by using up resources, armor, etc via restocking. Shaming and skill loss removes people from gameplay on a much more long term sense . Also lets not forget that the player killer is often at risk as well. The avg PvMer on the server that we run into isn't some noob. In fact we don't try to patrol noob spots, it wouldn't make financial sense.....

    So we commonly run into meta pet welding tamers, but you alude to somehow we are just at no risk hunting mindless shit. No that is what PvMers are doing and we are their only risk. Ancient Wyrms can be done alone, trust me PvMing isn't the most risk filled professiom compared to the rewards.

    How about you come over and player kill for a month and see how rewarding and easy it is. It's comical that you guys feel like you guys deserve a added reward to pvp. Talk about a handicap......



    But again this idea does nothing to solve the problems it sought up to fix and in a lot of ways made some problems much worse. That's what we are talking about and that's a fact no one can get around. They just side track the subject but the fact is the idea sucks for nearly everyone.

    I don't agree with what amounts to a failed history lesson by some. People suck Richards dick but it was Raph Koster that was lead designer of Ultima Online and even he said skill loss was his greatest game design mistake. He went on to design SWG and codesigner on Crowfall currently.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2015
    2 people like this.
  12. Streets

    Streets Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what either side can say at this point that has entered been said. Continuing on will just lead to arguing. I think the gms have their input and have to decide now...


    But i will say u agree with you on tamers they are an issue all their own. No tamer hate either just like no red hate. But if what reds say about tamers are accurate they may need a looking at as well, I dunno I don't fight them often, I know better lol.
     
  13. Ripstas

    Ripstas Well-Known Member

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    @Streets, for someone who has been here 3 months you sure do have a lot of input on this topic...
     
  14. Chop

    Chop Well-Known Member

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    Ok how about instead of stat loss just straight jail time if a pk is killed and head turned in by a BH. Want to avoid jail time? then pay something similar to bail. Bail and Jail time could be calculated through short and long term counts some how. If running in a zerg group even more jail time and higher bail or jail with no chance of bail. While jailed all characters on the account with a jailed character cannot attack blues until bail is paid or time is served.



    The pk(s) must be killed by a BH or a group accompanied by a BH for this (BH must be partied)

    Another option to jail would be you get sent to "hell". A crazy dungeon player killers go to when slain by BH or group accompanied by a BH. They would appear in to the bottom and the only way out is to run up through the levels and make it to the portal out. A death here will get you sent back to the start of the current level of hell you are on.

    These are more a joke than anything but who knows!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2015
  15. Streets

    Streets Well-Known Member

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    For a game that's 18 years old you seem uninformed
     
  16. Darth Bilbo

    Darth Bilbo Active Member

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    Merkaba
    Instead of more punishment, I believe balance can be reached by giving them an opposing force. Don't give them a reason to make 20 accounts instead of 10. bounty hunter quest or guild sounds great.
    Ability to track reds and be immune to monsters( or attack).
    Remove stat/loss from reds.
    Jail or pay bail and loss your mount for x amount of time.
    even trade :)
     
  17. Ripstas

    Ripstas Well-Known Member

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    Everyone is entitled to there opinion. PM me if you want to get train wrecked on yours.
     
  18. De Medici

    De Medici Well-Known Member

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    Cosimo de Medici
    Its easy: Adam and Shane want what everybody wants. They want that the shard stays alive and more and more people are leaving because of griefing, harassement and because they don´t wanne spend 30% of playtime with running as a ghost through a dungeon or restocking.

    The problem is that the solutions discussed here are no pareto optimal improvements, which means that u can´t make anybody better off (PVMer) without making somebody worse off (PKs). The PVM player contributes more value to the Server, because they first donate more and second don´t need the PKs but the PKs need the PVMer (otherwise there would be nothing to PK), hence the most important is to keep the PVMer playing. Thats why the Admins want change.

    Actually I have better things to do in my life but I have two basic ideas:

    1. Pareto optimal improvement: Making one party better off without making the other one worse off.

    Example:

    If a PVMer gets PKed in a dungeon, instant teleport him (and his Pets) to a healer so he doesnt need to run through the dungeon for 10 mins. Farer what sucks the most probably for the tamers is the Perma Stat of the Pets which is huge after they died because the tamers got pked and of course can´t heal them anylonger. If Pets get teleported after death with the Ghost that won´t happen. That makes Blues better off and PKs not worse off. No PK will leave the shard for that but people who think about quitting will rather stay. Many more Options are possible here...

    2. Stop the worst kind of griefing. The worst kind of griefing is that one where players don´t even have a potential profit/advantage nor the sportive perspective like Duelling.

    Pet killing ( with friendly regards to MmX ;-) is a big one cause of perma stat .
    Farer u could stop resskilling. This one is no parato improvement but do we really need messed up indivdiuals who wanne "torture" people for no reward?

    If you would implement only these two points and NOTHING ELSE, a part of the people who leaves server would stay and no pk can complain because NOTHING changes for them. They don´t care if the ghosts get teleported two a healer or not. Either way they have what they want, the fun to kill people who can´t defend them self (except of meta tamer) and the loot.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2015
  19. a magical man

    a magical man Well-Known Member

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    idk if this system is good, even if i pk or not this could make or break the shard
     
  20. GimpCent

    GimpCent Well-Known Member

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    @Adam @Shane


    PvMers do donate more, but most people do a mix of things. Nor should how much you donate matter in question of skill loss. That is a absurb way to do game balance, come on.

    PvMers just tend to donate more because what there is to donate for.... That isn't our fault but sorry I don't care about mount skin with the same stats. Sorry

    No one should be spending 30% of their time dead that is absurb as well. If you spend 30% of your time dead, you deserve to quit because frankly this game is too unforgiving for you.

    And

    Mob rule is a horrible way to run anything from a leadership direction standpoint. Just look who we elect and it should be clear that mob rule is hardly the best method in a uneducated world.

    And lastly

    You pretend this has popular support, it doesn't. In fact I would assume the idea of change has support but not this concept which is highly flawed and able to be abused.

    This does nothing to fix the issues it sought to and unjustly made many more worse. No can say other wise instead they just focus on how much they like the idea of a bounty system but no one is saying skill loss is a good idea. It's disrespectful to pvpers to have as even a option.

    I am not pro griefing, far from but this does nothing to stop griefing, its designed to cause grief. I think pet stealing and all that is wrong for all the same reasons. It removes people from gameplay and reduces player interactions.

    No one is sticking up for the douchebags that behave in that way yet folks use those extreme examples. This does nothing to stop that type of behavior sadly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2015
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