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New interview about Ultima Online.

Discussion in 'Everything Else' started by Coorhagen, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. Coorhagen

    Coorhagen Well-Known Member

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    I read this recent interview with "Designer Dragon" and thought I would share it here.
    http://massivelyop.com/2018/06/14/m...-on-the-glorious-mess-that-was-ultima-online/

    I thought this was an interesting quote,
    Rampant ganking and griefing and PKing drove players out of the 1997 sandbox by the thousands – “a truly distressing number of our new player acquisitions,”

    I find it interesting because Shane too said of this server,
    "I'm just pretty tired of losing players to pk's, and when i say losing players i mean we've lost THOUSANDS to this single issue,"

     
    AreYouKidden likes this.
  2. AreYouKidden

    AreYouKidden Well-Known Member

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    I read that recently as well - was a good read. That's still the same comment Shane makes about losing players, and while many believe reds here are a problem, you'll get a very active vocal group (like of reds), who'll tell you it isn't a problem... The fear is always going too far towards trammel, which most of us do believe ruined the game - but I feel there's a higher risk/penalty spot with PK's that'd help to balance the numbers of PK's, without turning it too much into trammel.

    Further to that, as Shane mentioned in that original thread, create some rewards for hunting PK's to help sort the issue out too... Right now PK's hunt blues, and get rewarded with their gear / gold, blues hunt PK's and get nothing, because reds really don't buy back their heads because the penalties aren't severe enough for them to bother. I've requested 5k for a head and not gotten it most times.
     
    Shane and Kyain like this.
  3. Kyain

    Kyain Well-Known Member

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    It will literally never change. It's just not going to. Large zerg guilds will always dominate the little guys, and it forces people into the join them or suck it up that you won't be a part of things.

    I have the 'they can go %#! themselves' mentality, but not many do. I've tried to help quite a few newbies into this game, and it always ends the same. They get wrecked everytime they go out, and before you know it, you never see them logging in.

    I haven't even been here that long, 3 months ish, but in those 3 months I've tried to get 7 or 8 people started and solidified in the game, and of those, only 1 has remained in the game.

    The chances of getting anything out of a public RDA, or champ these days, is slim to none if you're not one of the big guilds, because they'll just come on in and roll anybody at 3% and then you have no chance of loot because you weren't alive at the boss.

    Some of these things are really really easy to work around. Min score and then rewards go into your bank. That's one small change (that believe me, only the big guilds would be crying against.... oh I can't steal.... oh you have to protect your prize).

    Think of how much more participation you would get from the server as a whole if they knew they weren't absolutely wasting their time at champs and rdas?. Now if you see werkt or vanq or any of the other guys tags show up, you know that at 3% a group of their reds are gonna come sweeping through the whole area and only leave their guild standing for the loot. Hell it's the same reason nobody else will even pop a harrower, because you're never going to get the loot out of it.With this setup, they need to hold that champ THE ENTIRE time to keep people from building score. Not just gank people after some mechanic drops them to 10% life when the boss is at 2%. Make the pvp'ers nut up.

    Leave dungeons the same. Let the elite tmap crews e-bolt rail through the lands, stealing the pets and doing anything they can to make others miserable. You want the change to perk up your pvm'ers and get more people involved, there it is right up there. Hell you might even get dropped at the champ and lose your gm leather or vanq weapon, but you'll AT LEAST have a shot at the relic, power scrolls, or whatever considering you were there for 97% of the fight.
     
  4. AreYouKidden

    AreYouKidden Well-Known Member

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    i've made similar suggestions - on champs if you didn't want to go the route of loot automatically to the bank, change when it hands loot out, at the end of each level have a chance for the loot to go to someone with a min score, and if at the end no loot has been handed out, hand it all out when the boss drops. The reality is people who are there from the start would have better chances at loot, and PK's wouldn't be able to focus on the last 3% to kill all the players. It'd provide people incentive to start champs, and walk away from them if they got too hectic for their liking.

    For RDA's - I 100% agree the reward should go to your bank. there's 1 reward that comes out of them, and 1 entrance, the big guilds swarrm in at whatever stage you are on, and wall up that gate with pets, you are on foot, you gotta get through the walls, and the gate, and hope they didn't flag your for PvP which also stops you going through the gate... I usually don't even try to do an RDA, unless it's a private one, and even then the price of frags is so high, that it's done more as a guild event, than something worthwhile, considering in 15 RDA's I've not seen a relic, and the only 120 power scroll that would be worth it if it ever dropped is the taming or lore ones. Everything else isn't worth the 1.25 mill you waste on frags.
     
  5. Kyain

    Kyain Well-Known Member

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    Hell, Locke Cole is even worse then that. Automatic boss mechanic that takes you to 5-10% of your life AND your poisoned so at least 1 cast is going into cure. Then a red stealther just hits you with a wet noodle and you fall over instantly afterwards.

    I am 100% open world PvP, but it's still no risk and all reward for them. I would never want it to lose that cat and mouse gameplay on a daily basis, but it's practically impossible to join in on end gameish content here. Hell the other day while tmapping I ran into the hardcore tmap pk's every 3-4 maps. Naturally it's 4-5 of them, so they just steamroll you, and then they take it even further and pet trap your beetle. I guess they were sour that 4 of them failed to catch me 4 times prior to that, or that's what gives them their jollies in life.

    @Shane has even mentioned that some of it is quite getting out of hand, but I'm not holding my breath for any meaningful changes. A large part of the vocal majority here are part of the problem we're discussing (not that you guys aren't playing within the rules, but the rules themselves are what have created the problem) It's also very hard for them to realize they're the problem when they are the top side looking down through their rose colored glasses
     
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  6. Shane

    Shane Administrator Staff Member

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    I see many issues still.
    That article and what Raph says is honestly dead-on. As Areyoukidden mentions i've said what Raph says many, many times here. Truth is, If we honestly implemented way harsher pk penalties 3 - 4 years ago we'd have 2x our population right now, easily. Why i've not done this is honestly because i'd rather not. It's not what i ever wanted here and with that I do not want online numbers or donations drive huge core changes.

    With that, it is seriously disheartening doing a ton of work as the sole marketer of UOFOREVER and watching many, many people disband and quit over pking, griefing etc. It happens daily, but fortunately we also gain players daily. It's a consistent in/out rotation.

    We will keep doing what we can to keep the balance of having pks, gaining players, and retaining players as vastly as we can- So far i think we've found a real good balance, even though like i've mentioned we could have MANY more players if we had a few changes with greifing and pking etc- but at that point maybe we wouldn't be the tight community we are now either. Either way, we will keep working hard on trying to keep new players coming in and retaining them while also allowing pking and griefing to some level.
     
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  7. Kyain

    Kyain Well-Known Member

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    Honestly i don't particularly want harsher penalties for them either, but I'd like to see more protection for the blues.

    As it sits now, every land champ I've ever been witnessed to, or RDA that's been announced, gets steamrolled at the last 5 to 10%. No matter how involved or how much time you put in, it's now been a waste of your time, and the same 2 to 3 groups end up with all the rewards and wealth.

    Is it that terrible of an idea to remove the must be alive portion for the boss rewards?

    I could come up with 2 interesting outcomes here.

    If you were dead, the reward goes to bank. Therefore it's a pretty bad idea to do the 5% steamroll of 20 reds because now there's no chance you're getting it.

    So alternatively they let everybody live and then it's the craze of trying to get out afterwards. Though now there's 30 people still alive and you don't know who has what in short time period. There the thief's will be going nuts trying to locate who has what.

    And for you griefers that only live on others sadness, imagine the effect on someone who actually got a power scroll or relic, and then had it ripped from their corpses few seconds later lol
     
  8. halv

    halv Well-Known Member

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    Question: Isn't polymorph spell or body paint the answer for your issue? Or did they change it?

    Btw. Avoiding or even killing PKs and reds is a big fun part of this game.
     
  9. baseball dad

    baseball dad Well-Known Member

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    Yes I'm a Pk (solo unless raiding champs mostly), but I see very few pks around in the game.

    I can farm for hours and not see one pk.

    A lot of the cry babies are just ill-prepared. Like they'll spend 20 to 70m on pets but have 0 resist, 0 pots, 0 ar with the awareness of a black out drunk and then have the audacity to say there's a pk problem when they die.

    If you want easy/safe scrolls, either farm lord oaks or join a zerg like city/make your own spell closest newb cannon guild.

    As for 0 risk all reward comments on pks.. lol. Please play a red (a real solo one, not an eb closest party of 5 to 10 newbs) before throwing out baseless opinions.
     
    Kyain and drasked like this.
  10. AreYouKidden

    AreYouKidden Well-Known Member

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    I see reds out there all the time and am in a guild where people are constantly calling out red attacks...
     
  11. drasked

    drasked Well-Known Member

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    Why would you shit talk yourself so hard?
     
    baseball dad likes this.
  12. Kyain

    Kyain Well-Known Member

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    Baseball, I guess I shoulda clarified because I honestly, do not lump the solo guys like yourself, a large portion of the 86 members and a few others in with my comments. I actually respect that you guys take on the challenge, often becoming outnumbered in short order. Not that it matters these days, but back on baja, it was myself and nighthawk tops ever out pk'ing, in comparison to groups of 15-20 LoD steamrolling dungeons and the such.

    My comments are the swarms of reds, that I don't care who you are, there's nothing you can do to prepare against that. Last time I was at cove champ, 5%, no less then 15 city reds rolled in there wiping out everything that wasn't their blue character, and then res killing on the ahnk. Or when city is out rolling 5-6 deep with pre-casted ebolts on a closest target macro against tmappers.

    The problem is, there's nothing you can do to combat those types of actions mechanics wise that wouldn't seriously impact players like yourself who don't run in massive gank squads and want serious pvp(which I don't think you'll disagree with me, is all reward, no risk). I don't want perm stat loss on guys like you and blacklisted or frag and the such as a way to combat these other actions which are way more detrimental to gameplay.

    It's why my first post in this thread is that's how it is and it will never change. I am that tamer that has no resist in pvp, and I realized it's totally non viable for champs and have made a 2nd toon to attempt to be able to ever get a reward out. I'm adapting to the situation but it doesn't mean I have to agree to the mechanics.

    In regards to a champ, I believe it would be more interesting trying to watch these squads hold it the entire time and not just an ambush attack. (i.e. you didn't need to be alive and near the boss to get a reward, if you got the score you're eligible and it will go into bank if dead, or backpack if they leave you alive).

    That's a huge difference to them only showing up at the last 5% to kill everybody within range of the boss in a massive ambush, while you see all their blues idle around the champ doing nothing. Hell then it may make the death gauntlet afterwards of everybody TRYING to get out with rewards because in that situation, it's better to not wipe out everybody doing the boss so you have a shot to loot them afterwards. I personally think that would be a way more enjoyable gameplay, even if it did invite a slaughter post champ looking for the rewards.

    I also want to add, I'm just referencing the last champ I saw it, but lord knows I've seen it at plenty, all over, in rda's, you name it. None of this is about a solo pk ripping through fire looking for fights, those are the ones I was trying to make clear that I am 100% all in favor of and don't think they should be penalized anymore then they are.
     
  13. baseball dad

    baseball dad Well-Known Member

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    I, as everyone knows, absolutely despise target hot keys that enable drug addicted basement dwellers to automatically launch spells at the closest player with the push of 1 key stroke anywhere on the screen.

    EQMS truly abused this mechanic and it illustrated just how dumb pvp can be. Even your marathon running 1 button sallos droppers with ego's bigger than Usain bolt are guilty of this. I wish for the day that target closest hot keys are removed from the game - but it'll never happen.

    City are like EQMS but with down syndrome. So they're not as effective in their spell closest zergs.

    The way to combat this shitty game mechanic? Choke points with tamers using stone walls and parafields. In cove - the lich cemetary a perfect spot. Likewise luring in spawn if you get over run.

    Otherwise you can follow suite by downloading sallos, setting up a target acquire hot key and spruik shit how great you are over dis cord because you set up a delayed eb hot key and ran the map for 20 minutes.
     
  14. drasked

    drasked Well-Known Member

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    The notion that solo pking is somehow a more respectable and/or difficult endeavor than raiding guilds for end game loot is absurd to me.
     
  15. Kyain

    Kyain Well-Known Member

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    Those looking down at the problem through rose colored glasses never see the problem. I can't help if you're blind to that
     
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  16. Psymon

    Psymon Well-Known Member

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    You're farming the wrong place. IF i Stay in the same place for 20 minutes, I'll get ganked 1-2 times. If you farm 2-3 mobs, and leave, bank, and return, you're a little safer...
    I'm not saying PKs are ruining the game. I don't know if there needs to be a change or not, but getting attacked by PK's is almost like clockwork in certain locations.
     
  17. Psymon

    Psymon Well-Known Member

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    Solo PK'ing isn't hard. Most of the time you're using a 7x PVP charactor against a 5x or 6x pvp character. Alchemy is most certainly the most powerful PvP skill, and takes zero actual skill.
    Specially with the ******** requirement for Berzerkers to NOT wear armor. Dexxer PK's LOVE this, they get a quick easy kill against a character who has a huge disadvantage against them because no Armor, No Potions (purple). They get a free slayer weapon and gold. Usually 20k worth of goods in 1 kill.
     
  18. Bromista

    Bromista Well-Known Member

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    Oh my god someone took a bballfag post seriously lol
     
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  19. Darkarna

    Darkarna Well-Known Member

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    Considering I am a none factor, I still find it somewhat amusing that this same conversation is repeated year in and year out. The only way that ever resolved or curved the severity of this issue was unfortunately the permanent reduction in stats when a player killer was.. player killed. This regrettably, affects solo players more so than group players so straight away it affects one set of players exclusively and unfairly.

    Group players have and will always be the bane of player killing, so if anything needs to be done, it needs to be done there. What happens when zergs get hit? Months of bullshit and forum dick-fuckery, real life vendettas, probes and personal data farming and all that dance that comes with it.

    Perhaps the issue is not the mechanics per se, just a low class of player who has a dummy stuck up their arse.

    If you were to compare all that has happened where complaints are concerned, the probable and most highlighted cause would be little jimmy and his mates puffed up all CHAV *council house associated vermin (uk)* like*.

    No change will happen now for the obvious reasons, should have happened a fair few years ago. Do you blame the staff? Not really, you blame the player for not understanding the rights and wrongs of human interaction. Change shouldn't happen because it will just snowball into a pool of lava, we all know how passionate people can be and exodus promised is usually a cause to revert or decline changes which could potentially help.

    Like Kyain said, when you are sitting on the top looking down it is very easy to cast judgement on what others think or do, the very second change is mentioned, well, meltdown becomes a thing and pacifiers/dummies start to fly at very frightening speeds.

    Oh well, back to retirement..All those loots from before can really help fund a lavish lifestyle... Cheers.
     
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  20. Amalgam

    Amalgam Well-Known Member

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    Does this server have sync-dump recognition?
     

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