Ryking
Neophyte
@Shane @allpks
PKing is game sanctioned griefing. There is no value to it as a play style or to the enjoyment of the game. It is a flaw that was corrected by OSI with the advent of Trammel and every MMO since. Let me explain...
It's griefing because it allows one player to ruin the enjoyment of another. You call it a play style, but that is just an excuse. If the way you get your fun is by ruining mine, you're a griefer, period. There is no other form of player interaction in which one player intentionally and maliciously does harm to another player and it's not considered griefing.
"It brings back the nostalgia of the game" or "It puts the fear back into going into a dungeon" - Oh please. I've been playing since 98 and I ran my own server for a while and I can tell you that during that time I have never heard anyone say to me, "this is great, but I wish someone would come and kill me and take all my stuff". I've never heard anyone say "ahh man I just got pk'd, that was awesome!" The truth is this is just a fallacy. If it were true, why not eliminate lock downs in housing? Don't you miss the days when someone would sneak into your house and clean it out when you logged from the game? If you want a challenge in the dungeons, create harder dungeons.
"I enjoy pvp" - Well that's not pvp. Player vs Player combat involves two or more consenting players duking it out. It's a game of skill which takes a long time to master. I respect the hell out of pvpers because I've seen what it takes to practice it and many of them are far better gamers than I am. What you're doing is sucker punching some innocent bystander. That's like saying you're a pro-boxer and then going out and decking some poor guy on the street and stealing his wallet. If PKs truly do enjoy pvp, why is that reds don't attack other reds? (Maybe some do, but I've read that many don't). It's bullying. I don't mean for this to be an attack, I'm simply trying to open your eyes to the truth. If you enjoy pvp, join a faction or pvp guild and play with like minded players and have fun. I applaud you for it.
"There's no challenge to pvm" - First, blame your GM. They should be doing more than just blocking off an area in Ilshenar and calling it a new dungeon. Second, if you wanted a challenge you wouldn't be picking on innocent players just trying to have a good time.
"But I role play a murderer" - still just an excuse for most. Role players use a certain code or set of rules which govern how they interact. If you want to pretend to be a role player, where is your bio, or your community, or your storyline? 99% you don't have one. For those of you who actually do role play a murderer, consider whether or not your victims view it that way. You may still be a griefer.
"Players can fight back" - yes but most don't want to. They are neither geared for it nor skilled for it. Most of them just want to enjoy the game with their friends or spend a few hours earning some gold and unwinding at the end of their day. There are all kinds of people in the world, and that includes people who don't like confrontation of any kind. Say what you want, but they have just as much right to enjoy this game as you do.
"It's just a game" - yes, so why not let me enjoy it? I play this game because it is fun, relaxing, and bring backs good memories. I have met a lot of really great people and I enjoy spending time with them. But we can't do the things we want to do because you prevent it. PKs are like a DOS attack because they are preventing the pvmer from doing what they want to do. I can't go out to a dungeon, I can't do a tmap, I can't even fish without being pk'd! So meanwhile the dungeons remain empty, the seas devoid of activity, and the hard work of the GMs unseen and unenjoyed because of PKs.
"If you allow players to farm dungeons with impunity it hurts the game economy" - this is a valid point, but once again we go back to the Game Master. It is the role of a Game Master to balance the game mechanics. If they're worried about the economy there are many other proven methods for controlling, including gold sinks and reducing loot. Think about all of the other aspects of this game that can't be enjoyed because of PKs and ask yourself if it's worth it.
These are my personal views on the subject, like it or not. I don't expect everyone to agree with any or all of what I've said, but I felt like I had to get this off my chest. I expect to be flamed for them. I expect to be called a carebear (ouch). Bring it on, I'm sure you'll enjoy that form of griefing too. But if you have some concise and valid argument against any portion of what I've asserted I welcome your rebuttal. I promise to respect your views if you have respected mine, it's that simple.
For those of you who fully agree with what I've said, I ask for your support here. Even a simple "I agree with..." or like would go a long way to demonstrating our point of view.
To the GMs, I want to say that I respect and appreciate what you do. I may have painted some of the things you have done as somewhat lazy, but I'm being honest and trying to give you real criticism. I could've sugar coated it but frankly I'm not in the mood. But make no mistake that, aside from these criticisms, this is by far the best server around. It's better than the one I created myself. I've donated to this server because I generally support what you do and I know it's hard, expensive, and sometimes thankless. I just hope you can understand my point of view on this subject. Let this thread speak for itself; they're either going to say I'm right or I'm wrong. All I ask is that you listen.
PKing is game sanctioned griefing. There is no value to it as a play style or to the enjoyment of the game. It is a flaw that was corrected by OSI with the advent of Trammel and every MMO since. Let me explain...
It's griefing because it allows one player to ruin the enjoyment of another. You call it a play style, but that is just an excuse. If the way you get your fun is by ruining mine, you're a griefer, period. There is no other form of player interaction in which one player intentionally and maliciously does harm to another player and it's not considered griefing.
"It brings back the nostalgia of the game" or "It puts the fear back into going into a dungeon" - Oh please. I've been playing since 98 and I ran my own server for a while and I can tell you that during that time I have never heard anyone say to me, "this is great, but I wish someone would come and kill me and take all my stuff". I've never heard anyone say "ahh man I just got pk'd, that was awesome!" The truth is this is just a fallacy. If it were true, why not eliminate lock downs in housing? Don't you miss the days when someone would sneak into your house and clean it out when you logged from the game? If you want a challenge in the dungeons, create harder dungeons.
"I enjoy pvp" - Well that's not pvp. Player vs Player combat involves two or more consenting players duking it out. It's a game of skill which takes a long time to master. I respect the hell out of pvpers because I've seen what it takes to practice it and many of them are far better gamers than I am. What you're doing is sucker punching some innocent bystander. That's like saying you're a pro-boxer and then going out and decking some poor guy on the street and stealing his wallet. If PKs truly do enjoy pvp, why is that reds don't attack other reds? (Maybe some do, but I've read that many don't). It's bullying. I don't mean for this to be an attack, I'm simply trying to open your eyes to the truth. If you enjoy pvp, join a faction or pvp guild and play with like minded players and have fun. I applaud you for it.
"There's no challenge to pvm" - First, blame your GM. They should be doing more than just blocking off an area in Ilshenar and calling it a new dungeon. Second, if you wanted a challenge you wouldn't be picking on innocent players just trying to have a good time.
"But I role play a murderer" - still just an excuse for most. Role players use a certain code or set of rules which govern how they interact. If you want to pretend to be a role player, where is your bio, or your community, or your storyline? 99% you don't have one. For those of you who actually do role play a murderer, consider whether or not your victims view it that way. You may still be a griefer.
"Players can fight back" - yes but most don't want to. They are neither geared for it nor skilled for it. Most of them just want to enjoy the game with their friends or spend a few hours earning some gold and unwinding at the end of their day. There are all kinds of people in the world, and that includes people who don't like confrontation of any kind. Say what you want, but they have just as much right to enjoy this game as you do.
"It's just a game" - yes, so why not let me enjoy it? I play this game because it is fun, relaxing, and bring backs good memories. I have met a lot of really great people and I enjoy spending time with them. But we can't do the things we want to do because you prevent it. PKs are like a DOS attack because they are preventing the pvmer from doing what they want to do. I can't go out to a dungeon, I can't do a tmap, I can't even fish without being pk'd! So meanwhile the dungeons remain empty, the seas devoid of activity, and the hard work of the GMs unseen and unenjoyed because of PKs.
"If you allow players to farm dungeons with impunity it hurts the game economy" - this is a valid point, but once again we go back to the Game Master. It is the role of a Game Master to balance the game mechanics. If they're worried about the economy there are many other proven methods for controlling, including gold sinks and reducing loot. Think about all of the other aspects of this game that can't be enjoyed because of PKs and ask yourself if it's worth it.
These are my personal views on the subject, like it or not. I don't expect everyone to agree with any or all of what I've said, but I felt like I had to get this off my chest. I expect to be flamed for them. I expect to be called a carebear (ouch). Bring it on, I'm sure you'll enjoy that form of griefing too. But if you have some concise and valid argument against any portion of what I've asserted I welcome your rebuttal. I promise to respect your views if you have respected mine, it's that simple.
For those of you who fully agree with what I've said, I ask for your support here. Even a simple "I agree with..." or like would go a long way to demonstrating our point of view.
To the GMs, I want to say that I respect and appreciate what you do. I may have painted some of the things you have done as somewhat lazy, but I'm being honest and trying to give you real criticism. I could've sugar coated it but frankly I'm not in the mood. But make no mistake that, aside from these criticisms, this is by far the best server around. It's better than the one I created myself. I've donated to this server because I generally support what you do and I know it's hard, expensive, and sometimes thankless. I just hope you can understand my point of view on this subject. Let this thread speak for itself; they're either going to say I'm right or I'm wrong. All I ask is that you listen.
), but so far we'll just have to deal with it.
