Vivify revamp (wow great idea cups!)

a trollbridge · Oct 8, 2018

all i know is meta mage nerf sucks. i have a hard time even getting in the top 15 damagers now even though im max meta mage and start at the champ from the beginning. meta dexers that come through halfway can get higher score than me now. really fucking lame!!

a trollbridge · Oct 8, 2018

max level meta mage holding arachnid doom slayer book and im consistently hitting dread spiders for 24 damage. i hate to sound like a cry baby but this is literally making me not even want to play anymore. so much time invested in making my meta mage and now suddenly useless.

lollo · Oct 8, 2018

a trollbridge said:
max level meta mage holding arachnid doom slayer book and im consistently hitting dread spiders for 24 damage. i hate to sound like a cry baby but this is literally making me not even want to play anymore. so much time invested in making my meta mage and now suddenly useless.

should've made a tamer or zerker like everyone else

Lord_Puffy · Oct 8, 2018

Lexington said:
See the avatar to the left… that black book that in the pic! I know all there is to know about you’re unwarranted perception of the meta mage state. That book does not give anyone any real advantage for anything. It was a reward for server support and commitment well over 4 ½ years ago.

The facts!!!

It and every other slayer spell book (crafted or not crafted) are constantly being out-scored at pretty much every champ and dungeon boss out there. That little black book is not what’s making the mage mage weak in comparison. The fact you guys keep fixating on it might though!

Lord_Puffy · Oct 8, 2018

Lexington said:
See the avatar to the left… that black book that in the pic! I know all there is to know about you’re unwarranted perception of the meta mage state. That book does not give anyone any real advantage for anything. It was a reward for server support and commitment well over 4 ½ years ago.

The facts!!!

It and every other slayer spell book (crafted or not crafted) are constantly being out-scored at pretty much every champ and dungeon boss out there. That little black book is not what’s making the mage mage weak in comparison. The fact you guys keep fixating on it might though!

How much were these books when they were introduced into the game.

And those books work wonders on some of the bosses.

Maybe they aren’t thee best for some of the champs, but the mini bosses?

They def hold their own in mostly all, if not being top score in the 4 classes of metas.

Where are the books currently, the general consensus is 4?

Next question.... Are they going to allow us the ability to craft spell books w the same
Properties that those BLESSED books currently have? It would be great if the community could craft books like those even if they were costly to make and had a low %.

What do you think lexington? Seeing as you said it would only be a very small increase. Do you think that the rest of the community should also have access to the same advantages that those 2-3 players who rarely use them?

I would love the ability to test those books out on any and all of the bosses to see what the difference in damage is versus a meta mage without using the Slayer book.

Not trying to troll I’m just curious in how much of a difference there is when comparing just a meta mage with and without it.

Ps- sorry for the double post, can’t edit or delete them anymore. Staff if u see this delete the blank msg I posted before this. Thanks!

Lexington · Oct 8, 2018

Lord_Puffy said:
What do you think lexington? Seeing as you said it would only be a very small increase. Do you think that the rest of the community should also have access to the same advantages that those 2-3 players who rarely use them?

Sure the rest of the community can have what I have… as soon as they show the same level of early comment and support.

Stop focusing on shit like this… and focus on what this post was started for.

Lord_Puffy said:
Not trying to troll I’m just curious in how much of a difference there is when comparing just a meta mage with and without it.

The difference is the work a player puts in… being a good meta mage is about knowing how to take advantage of your spells and relics. I’ve played this class nonstop since it was introduces. It’s fun as hell but not even close to the other class when it comes to score. The rare time I dual client a champ with my mage and a zerker I easily out score the mage playing the zerker about half time.

Not directed @ you puffs… but in the end all you guys are trying to do with (off topic) posts like this is… get rewards deleted or nerfed. Ironically these are typically the same players pming me regularly asking if I’ll sell.

cups · Oct 8, 2018

I tested it this weekend with a harrower. My meta mage is level 10, and dispersion, focus and shadow disciple are all level 10. I summoned a level 3 vivify daemon. I got about 16k score with my meta mage. I used my tamer with a max dragon + steed and I forget my end score but I remember I had over 10k on the first form alone. The tamer was far superior to the meta mage. I understand I'm kind of getting off point here but this thread has evolved into a meta mage in general discussion.

As far as those books like Lexington has. It's a hard spot. I see it from both ways. He gave hefty support to a new server and as such he was given a special item. I don't think the right answer is to take that away from him, or to nerf it, or give the entire community the same books.. but there should be a way for the meta mage to be more competitive with the other metas. I would hate for the existence of these four slayer books be the sole reason that the entire class doesn't get a buff. I suggested making the vivify daemon stronger but others have talked about changing the focus relic. I'm really up for any ideas people have. Oh, and lastly, vivify summoned pets should last longer! I would be happy if vivify daemons lasted like 15 minutes or something.. but that's just a side note.

Lexington · Oct 8, 2018

cups said:
I tested it this weekend with a harrower. My meta mage is level 10, and dispersion, focus and shadow disciple are all level 10. I summoned a level 3 vivify daemon. I got about 16k score with my meta mage. I used my tamer with a max dragon + steed and I forget my end score but I remember I had over 10k on the first form alone. The tamer was far superior to the meta mage. I understand I'm kind of getting off point here but this thread has evolved into a meta mage in general discussion.

As far as those books like Lexington has. It's a hard spot. I see it from both ways. He gave hefty support to a new server and as such he was given a special item. I don't think the right answer is to take that away from him, or to nerf it, or give the entire community the same books.. but there should be a way for the meta mage to be more competitive with the other metas. I would hate for the existence of these four slayer books be the sole reason that the entire class doesn't get a buff. I suggested making the vivify daemon stronger but others have talked about changing the focus relic. I'm really up for any ideas people have. Oh, and lastly, vivify summoned pets should last longer! I would be happy if vivify daemons lasted like 15 minutes or something.. but that's just a side note.

Focus used to do double the damage it currently does from what I remember. Changing that back might be all that needs to be done really.

TheFallen · Oct 8, 2018

The last thing I would want to see is the books removed or blessed all slayer books becoming obtainable by everyone. However we need to consider this a game changing item. They didn't exist before metas and are certainly a much bigger factor with metas in the game. To compare with the book to a berserker or trance doesn't make sense. We need to compare a mage with a book to a mage without on a mob that has no slayer and it is very obvious that it is a huge advantage. That is why I suggest to keep balance you simple add all slayer as a property roll and the blessed books are still extremely valuable (think blessed silver book with millions versus charged book with a couple thousand). Then we don't need to worry about balancing around a super rare item.
We could also ensure every single mob gets a slayer type and effectively not do anything to the books and find balance.

Bromista · Oct 8, 2018

When it comes to end-game I think the biggest thing that people neglect to acknowledge are the myriad, the literal myriad, of poorly designed one-shot boss mechanics that you are way more vulnerable to as a dexer.

Only some of them can be avoided by stacking, and if you are doing a community boss with random? Fucking forget about it.

Pls don't get me started on the all-or-nothing paragon boss mechanic.

Mages have tremendous degree of mobility and safety. Risk of gear is next to nil. Score should absolutely reflect that.

Maybe it's not perfect in current form but the expectation for meta mage performance needs to be put in check a little bit.

Oh hey guys

Lexington · Oct 8, 2018

TheFallen said:
The last thing I would want to see is the books removed or blessed all slayer books becoming obtainable by everyone. However we need to consider this a game changing item. They didn't exist before metas and are certainly a much bigger factor with metas in the game. To compare with the book to a berserker or trance doesn't make sense. We need to compare a mage with a book to a mage without on a mob that has no slayer and it is very obvious that it is a huge advantage. That is why I suggest to keep balance you simple add all slayer as a property roll and the blessed books are still extremely valuable (think blessed silver book with millions versus charged book with a couple thousand). Then we don't need to worry about balancing around a super rare item.
We could also ensure every single mob gets a slayer type and effectively not do anything to the books and find balance.

The talk is about balancing around ONE PLAYER... LOL The one player that sure as fuk doesn't abuse the game once so ever!!

You’re all crazy if you think that the problem with the meta mage has anything to do with me.

Should we nerf the rogue talisman because there is a blessed super slayer heavy cross bow?

Should we nerf the Zerker because there is a blessed slayer long spear?

Lexington · Oct 8, 2018

Bromista said:
When it comes to end-game I think the biggest thing that people neglect to acknowledge are the myriad, the literal myriad, of poorly designed one-shot boss mechanics that you are way more vulnerable to as a dexer.

Only some of them can be avoided by stacking, and if you are doing a community boss with random? Fucking forget about it.

Pls don't get me started on the all-or-nothing paragon boss mechanic.

Mages have tremendous degree of mobility and safety. Risk of gear is next to nil. Score should absolutely reflect that.

Maybe it's not perfect in current form but the expectation for meta mage performance needs to be put in check a little bit.

Oh hey guys

Bromistia is right here... but the mage is also very expensive to play as each action costs gold

TheFallen · Oct 8, 2018

Lexington said:
The talk is about balancing around ONE PLAYER... LOL The one player that sure as fuk doesn't abuse the game once so ever!!

You’re all crazy if you think that the problem with the meta mage has anything to do with me.

Should we nerf the rogue talisman because there is a blessed super slayer heavy cross bow?

Should we nerf the Zerker because there is a blessed slayer long spear?

Didn't say nerf. Exactly like both your examples unblessed versions of those items are available putting everyone in the same playing field and that is exactly what I'm suggesting.

TheFallen · Oct 8, 2018

I really don't intend this as anything personal lex as I'm only just getting active after a long break myself. I just don't believe items that give you double someone else's damage doing the exact same thing are game breaking. I know coon isn't playing or Tony atm but the truth is the books are still a huge pay 2 win item as you cannot obtain something that does the same thing through in game play. I am a huge numbers guy and I play this game to find maximum efficiencies and these books in the right hands are a HUGE advantage.

If every mob had a slayer type the books would still be awesome and is still play stupid money co.e them but a player would at least be able to match damage by using the appropriate slayer type.

I think that is the most fair as it changes nothing about the books but eliminates a clear advantage on mobs that currently have no slayer type.

Bromista · Oct 9, 2018

In my opinion, and trust me I have 0 experience with meta mages cause I just haven't yet and may never, the usage of stock is about a wash. Difference is in the gear.

Low budget mage kit vs low budget dexer kit is about the same

Slayer weapons and slayer books can be done cheap
More regs for mage, more pots for dexer (but maybe also regs for dexer depending on build)
Cheap out on armor for either, whatever

High roller builds are where the real differences start to show. You will spend mils for blessed slayer books if you are one of lucky few, but dexer life costs big bucks guaranteed. Mils in slayer armor, slayers, and slayerized runics. These are going beyond your run-of-the-mill exceptional slayer weapons. You gotta keep coming up with the stuff, unlike spellbooks that ppl grind afk and stock aplenty as with those GM slayers.

And all of the bad mechanic danger too? It really makes you smile and you get this warm fuzzy feeling inside when all your fancy gear doesn't do a thing against it lol and you just look at 850k worth of gear on your corpse and you get into high-pitch fast talk famara under pressure mode and your guildmates are like dood calm down and you're like oh shit...

Score should definitely reflect alllll of that.

Now I really don't like those books. I really don't. Contribution to the server is nice and all but that will never change the fact that I think they were a mistake. But the issue at hand is really a matter of cost of play style and risk more than anything.

I do like the relative balance of the cost of tamers vs talismans and the balance of content that requires both, I honestly don't see a lot changing maybe just some minor tweaks here and there.

We could get into a whole side discussion about the crappy relics of any particular talisman, but honestly that's really not a major concern as long as each talisman functions the way it was intended and maintain relative balance of risk vs ability to get shit done. The community will sort out the rest via pricing. Not every drop is gonna be a winner folks, there need to be some duds in there.

How far off course do we wanna steer this thing? I can do this all day

Lexington · Oct 9, 2018

TheFallen said:
I really don't intend this as anything personal lex as I'm only just getting active after a long break myself. I just don't believe items that give you double someone else's damage doing the exact same thing are game breaking. I know coon isn't playing or Tony atm but the truth is the books are still a huge pay 2 win item as you cannot obtain something that does the same thing through in game play. I am a huge numbers guy and I play this game to find maximum efficiencies and these books in the right hands are a HUGE advantage.

If every mob had a slayer type the books would still be awesome and is still play stupid money co.e them but a player would at least be able to match damage by using the appropriate slayer type.

I think that is the most fair as it changes nothing about the books but eliminates a clear advantage on mobs that currently have no slayer type.

This isn't meant to be personal either... but how many times have you personally asked to buy / borrow one of these… 10 plus times?? Would your attitude be the same if my answer was different than the usually?

In the wise words of Bill Gates "RULE 1 ... Life is not fair; get used to it."

Lexington · Oct 9, 2018

Bromista said:
In my opinion, and trust me I have 0 experience with meta mages cause I just haven't yet and may never, the usage of stock is about a wash. Difference is in the gear.

Low budget mage kit vs low budget dexer kit is about the same

Slayer weapons and slayer books can be done cheap

More regs for mage, more pots for dexer (but maybe also regs for dexer depending on build)

Cheap out on armor for either, whatever

High roller builds are where the real differences start to show. You will spend mils for blessed slayer books if you are one of lucky few, but dexer life costs big bucks guaranteed. Mils in slayer armor, slayers, and slayerized runics. These are going beyond your run-of-the-mill exceptional slayer weapons. You gotta keep coming up with the stuff, unlike spellbooks that ppl grind afk and stock aplenty as with those GM slayers.

And all of the bad mechanic danger too? It really makes you smile and you get this warm fuzzy feeling inside when all your fancy gear doesn't do a thing against it lol and you just look at 850k worth of gear on your corpse and you get into high-pitch fast talk famara under pressure mode and your guildmates are like dood calm down and you're like oh shit...

Score should definitely reflect alllll of that.

Now I really don't like those books. I really don't. Contribution to the server is nice and all but that will never change the fact that I think they were a mistake. But the issue at hand is really a matter of cost of play style and risk more than anything.

I do like the relative balance of the cost of tamers vs talismans and the balance of content that requires both, I honestly don't see a lot changing maybe just some minor tweaks here and there.

We could get into a whole side discussion about the crappy relics of any particular talisman, but honestly that's really not a major concern as long as each talisman functions the way it was intended and maintain relative balance of risk vs ability to get shit done. The community will sort out the rest via pricing. Not every drop is gonna be a winner folks, there need to be some duds in there.

How far off course do we wanna steer this thing? I can do this all day

Yes Bromista you can go all day… and usually do. The forms don’t have a better wordsmith.

TheFallen · Oct 9, 2018

Lexington said:
This isn't meant to be personal either... but how many times have you personally asked to buy / borrow one of these… 10 plus times?? Would your attitude be the same if my answer was different than the usually?

In the wise words of Bill Gates "RULE 1 ... Life is not fair; get used to it."

Even if I owned one I would completely support either of the changes I have suggested. 100%. I don't like the idea of removing them or changing them. Change other stuff in game instead. Same as when meta mage was added it changed things

Kyain · Oct 9, 2018

#MageLivesMatter

^_^ · Oct 9, 2018

The thread was about Vivify changes, and why all of you went that #offtopic?

@Lexington just give me one of your books for couple weeks, and read nice topics/discord chats after haha

P.S. Cino summon you, you need to ask to buff mages, all of it because of you xD

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